Dan & Phil Part 55: DOWN IT! DOWN IT! DOWN IT!

[alittledizzy]

Well. You voted for it and now your reward/punishment is having to look at the gif until the entire first page is filled.


gif credit to greenerlester

[dontpanic]

seeing the "down it!" moment in gif form makes it all the more real, I don't know how to process this. This beats the white-blurr-Phil cameo in the "nearly blinded myself" vid.

I know, such an intelligent contribution for the first post of the thread lol

edited for my terrible spelling. twice. I've got degrees in econ and math for a reason.

[ijustwantdeath]

not to be too dramatic but i really don't want dnp to ever mention felix ever again. I know they're not gonna call him out or ever make a statement not just cause they're anti-drama but because i know they never really use their platform/privilege to influence issues of any actual importance (especially social justice issues). the last time the whole nazi bullshit happened with felix, dan pretty much just brushed it under the rug by calling him a "problematic dad" and laughed it off as if being problematic is an endearing trait and not something to be taken seriously. I really fucking hope he doesn't do that again.

idk man as a poc, i come to the phandom for general escapism/comfort from irl struggles. the last thing i need is two men i stan associating themselves with a casual racist. they don't need to start any drama but i never want them to mention the word pewdiepie ever again. or maybe i'm asking for too much, maybe it's much more complicated when you're standing in their shoes. i really don't know. i'm gonna go drink some fucking water and calm down.

where's the I'm sick of racists and need a hug emoji because i think i might need one

[human]

Hahaha I just wish it was real vodka lol.

I can definitely believe there is a filming flat and a private flat. Seems such a huge waste of rent but would somehow make sense to them I think; a "peasant phlat" with Phil's pokey filmset which we're intended to believe he lives in and also gaming room and idk, I'm bad at putting together the pictures but it seems one of the kitchens is small and part of the lounge so maybe that's that flat, then another place that has that curved wall and the moon room, i.e "bigger phlat". I think Dan doing his liveshow in the moon room was a bit of a fail for them if so because it just seemed so weird, him having this huge luxury room and Phil's being so small. It always seemed weird to me. But then perhaps they thought nobody would ever think there were two places? It is pretty odd and unexpected.

I really don't think it's that common to have two dining tables in one house by the way, I've never heard of that, maybe a breakfast bar but not another full dining table. Plus when they talked about having a duplex, I was amazed that it sounded like they were still in central London and had all that space. It didn't sit with me so this theory makes soooo much more sense.

I want to go back and watch that first joint liveshow with the boxes and compare how they describe the place to this theory haha.

The Felix stuff, I just think he's a dick and has been for a while. A clear example of someone who has changed as a person for the worse because they have money, thinking wealth puts them above the need to be a good person. I wish he'd lose followers or something, there just seems to be no repucussions for bad behaviour when you're rich and it makes me sick.

I'm also off work in bed with bronchitis and can barely move cos my ribs hurt so much, so this is all perfect entertainment for me thank you all!

[LtrllySusan]

So what if... there are two flats. And they usually just film down there, take the SD card up to the bigger phlat, edit and upload from there. The WiFi kinda reaches to the phake phlat, but it's kinda crap. Therefore, bad internet in the gaming room. When they realised that for the gaming streams they made it a bigger story line (bad internet provider) while they could get internet set up in the other place.

Or they just have shit internet in general? I just still can't believe a Youtuber would have a 0.25 Mbts upload :eh:

[human]

So what if... there are two flats. And they usually just film down there, take the SD card up to the bigger phlat, edit and upload from there. The WiFi kinda reaches to the phake phlat, but it's kinda crap. Therefore, bad internet in the gaming room. When they realised that for the gaming streams they made it a bigger story line (bad internet provider) while they could get internet set up in the other place.

Or they just have shit internet in general? I just still can't believe a Youtuber would have a 0.25 Mbts upload :eh:

Daaaamn that would explain the internet thing?

Although to be fair, I felt like they're both kind of fed up of the tiny screen space of YouNow (why did they make it a box? It's so annoying) and then the screen is constantly covered up with boats and whatever else. It's all very juvenile. But I use to like buying bars on YouNow and sending premiums but the superchats on YouTube aren't as good, I don't think.

[lurker]

pewdiepie: i don't think deps are obliged in any way to publicly condemn his behaviour. it would be a good signal to a large audience if they did (even in a general way à la "it's never okay to..."), but since we don't know how their private relationship with him goes and there's the chance they talked about it non-publicly i won't hold it against them -- as long as there's no "everyone's problematic dad" moment 2.0 because that would be....yikes. if they go ahead and just don't mention him again, i'm fine. but i really, really hope they stick to that because even another casual "we played this with felix" without ever acknowledging what he did would make me change my opinion on them.

house plan: gotta agree with fancybum here and just quietly scroll past the discussion until something else comes up again.

[human]

house plan: gotta agree with fancybum here and just quietly scroll past the discussion until something else comes up again.

Lol you guys are on the wrong website.

[fancybum]

house plan: gotta agree with fancybum here and just quietly scroll past the discussion until something else comes up again.

Lol you guys are on the wrong website.

Oh wow thanks, great attitude from a former mod

[chiccola]

Pewdiepie drama

Last time this came up I was one of the minority that thought Felix was just making a bad joke and trying to be edgy, and didn't see why D&P would want to/have to stop being friends with him. This feels different to me though. If one of my friends used that word so casually, there is no way I would believe they weren't racist, and I don't think I'd be able to keep being friends with them as a result. I hope Dan and Phil feel the same way about Felix now but I appreciate it's not as black and white as that when you're friends with someone. And again this goes back to the rolemodel thing. Do they have to stop being friends with someone for the sake of looking good to their audience? No. Do I hope that they feel morally that they can't be friends with him anymore? Yes.

Quoting this from the previous thread because I'm in the same situation here, in that I understood his previous controversy as a bad joke & not something you'd necessarily have to cut ties with a person for. But this new situation has opened my eyes and while I doubt dan&phil would ever say anything about it, because they've almost never adressed problematic behavior in the past, I hope they at least stop associating with him publicly. I know it's hard to "unfriend" someone irl, especially when you have mutual friends (plus they're like the least confrontational people on Youtube I know about), I'm only hoping for no more positive liveshow mentions or tweets.

[LtrllySusan]

Quoting fancybum from the other thread:

Just in keeping with the theme of it being unpopular opinion day, and with the hope that other, and more subjectively interesting, discussion topics pop up in the days to come (bring on voluntary vacation selfies pls/thx and/or call out pewdiepie pls/thx), I just want to say I find the mapping out of Barbie's dream house immensely creepy. I'm not telling or expecting anybody to stop doing it, because lol yeah right, but i just feel like saying not everybody is into it (and if 'not everybody' really just means 'me', oh well). "Good wholesome fun" I guess in the sense that maybe/arguably nobody is being obviously harmed by it but while IDB likes to wear its sherlocking/'wholesome-stalking' like some kind of badge, it's probably my least favourite part about this place. I'd rather read more arguments about queerbaiting tbh. And nobody needs to care about that opinion on any level, but if there are any lurkers out there thinking 'wow what a creepy stalker haven': yeah. But as has been well-documented even just today, it's not a homogenous group of people on the exact same wavelength.
Just throwing that out there.

I can totally see where you are coming from, and the logical part of me fully agrees. Yet - it's fun to play detective, and I am excited to read what other people have deducted, and I do take part in the discussion and throw odd ideas into the room. But I can also understand why it's creepy and troublesome.

Since Dan's agoraphobia comment I have been thinking what we can do to help. I didn't bring it up cause there was this whole discussion about the phobia mention being valid or not, but it fits in in the light of your comment.
I take things way too personal generally, so I am just wondering what my behaviour has done to support this development of mental health issues. So I was thinking, maybe I should bring it up to IDB, that we can all be a bit less invasive? But then I thought no, they are probably gonna find that silly and they aren't doing anything illegal so who am I to tell them.

Overanalysing D&P's communication with us (videos, LSs, tweets) has basically become a sport here. I know for a lot of people it's all in good fun and with a wink and nothing's too serious, but we gotta remember there's a lot of lurkers on here (not meaning you, lurker ). One time I wrote how a tweet from Dan that had blacked out text was still quite readable, and I immediately got two PMs from people who've never posted, asking about details.

My (rambly) point is - with all our fun analysis, are we enabling worse behaviour?
And - is it worth it? Is the satisfaction of finding out information we weren't given large enough to make up for possible discomfort of D&P, to the point where it might be influencing mental health? (it's an assumption of course, but I very much doubt Dan's "growing agoraphobia" has absolutely nothing to do with his fame and desire for privacy)

[human]

house plan: gotta agree with fancybum here and just quietly scroll past the discussion until something else comes up again.

Lol you guys are on the wrong website.

Oh wow thanks, great attitude from a former mod

Lol it was a joke, apologies if that wasn't clear. I just meant that this thread generally goes indepth all the time (thus indepth bants), it's kinda how the site rocks haha. What does being a former mod have to do with anything anyway?

[flarequake]

That's a good point, LtrllySusan and I wonder how much we can do even as a fairly big community on the forum, we're still a corner of the phandom as a whole. We can argue that all our investigating isn't for Dan and Phil's eyes, though we don't know if they lurk here, and a lot of us find it fun and interesting. One thing that springs to mind is something a lot of people probably don't need telling anyway, and that's to ask before getting out a camera if you ever bump into them, though that's a fairly rare thing to happen anyway. I'm never sure psa posts e.g. on tumblr get seen much especially by the people doing the more damaging things, but there are lots of small groups in the phandom doing good projects, so maybe.

[Birdie]

It just doesn’t make sense to me how especially Dan is quite vocal about social justice stuff lately and still chooses to affiliate himself with Felix. It doesn’t make sense. If you’re anti-racism, anti-homophobia etc., how can you just accept a friend publicly being a racist twat? I think it’s all about how powerful Felix is in the Youtube world and nobody seems to want to be on his bad side. He reminds me a bit of a school bully: Everyone tries to be friends with the popular boy even though his behaviour is horrible just so he doesn’t turn on them. Felix even sent his fanboys after J.K. Rowling. She was having none of it but I doubt fellow Youtubers want that kind of attention from his fanbase. Seriously, I just can’t see why deppy would genuinely want to be friends with someone like Felix. Unless of course the image I have of them is all wrong but I really hope that’s not the case. I don't expect them to speak up about it but they seriously need to stop mentioning Felix at all. The "We played this game with Felix and Marzia before" comment in the last gaming stream was all kinds of unnecessary and all it does is make it seem like they still support Felix and that's just sad.

House plan discussion: It’s not something I’m comfortable with at all so I’m on team “Scroll past and hope it’s over soon” but you do you. It’s not like you’re stalking them or anything, you’re just working with what they’ve shown us so far. Do I think it’s a bit creepy? Kind of. Do I think it’s enabling stalkerish behaviour? Not really. This site is pretty much about speculation and not at all about invading privacy. My personal opinion is that everything goes as long as it’s about something deppy have decided to show us. As soon as it’s about something they don’t want public I’m out though, I don’t like that at all. But as far as I know IDB isn't about that life.

[citizen_erased]

Quoting fancybum from the other thread:

Just in keeping with the theme of it being unpopular opinion day, and with the hope that other, and more subjectively interesting, discussion topics pop up in the days to come (bring on voluntary vacation selfies pls/thx and/or call out pewdiepie pls/thx), I just want to say I find the mapping out of Barbie's dream house immensely creepy. I'm not telling or expecting anybody to stop doing it, because lol yeah right, but i just feel like saying not everybody is into it (and if 'not everybody' really just means 'me', oh well). "Good wholesome fun" I guess in the sense that maybe/arguably nobody is being obviously harmed by it but while IDB likes to wear its sherlocking/'wholesome-stalking' like some kind of badge, it's probably my least favourite part about this place. I'd rather read more arguments about queerbaiting tbh. And nobody needs to care about that opinion on any level, but if there are any lurkers out there thinking 'wow what a creepy stalker haven': yeah. But as has been well-documented even just today, it's not a homogenous group of people on the exact same wavelength.
Just throwing that out there.

I can totally see where you are coming from, and the logical part of me fully agrees. Yet - it's fun to play detective, and I am excited to read what other people have deducted, and I do take part in the discussion and throw odd ideas into the room. But I can also understand why it's creepy and troublesome.

Since Dan's agoraphobia comment I have been thinking what we can do to help. I didn't bring it up cause there was this whole discussion about the phobia mention being valid or not, but it fits in in the light of your comment.
I take things way too personal generally, so I am just wondering what my behaviour has done to support this development of mental health issues. So I was thinking, maybe I should bring it up to IDB, that we can all be a bit less invasive? But then I thought no, they are probably gonna find that silly and they aren't doing anything illegal so who am I to tell them.

Overanalysing D&P's communication with us (videos, LSs, tweets) has basically become a sport here. I know for a lot of people it's all in good fun and with a wink and nothing's too serious, but we gotta remember there's a lot of lurkers on here (not meaning you, lurker ). One time I wrote how a tweet from Dan that had blacked out text was still quite readable, and I immediately got two PMs from people who've never posted, asking about details.

My (rambly) point is - with all our fun analysis, are we enabling worse behaviour?
And - is it worth it? Is the satisfaction of finding out information we weren't given large enough to make up for possible discomfort of D&P, to the point where it might be influencing mental health? (it's an assumption of course, but I very much doubt Dan's "growing agoraphobia" has absolutely nothing to do with his fame and desire for privacy)

I've been thinking about this as well. It's easy to say 'oh he doesn't have agoraphobia because he still goes outside', but I think it shouldn't be underestimated how stressful it is to just want to go somewhere and constantly be on edge, to constantly think about whether there's a fan nearby, whether people are taking pictures of you, whether people are going to come up to you (whether you like that or not).

I love the interior design discussions, and I have definitely participated in them. I guess I did some mental gymnastics for it, in like a "but it's only the inside, it's not like I'm trying to figure out where they live so that makes it ok" when 1) it's not and 2) just because I draw a line there doesn't mean everyone will. And besides, even if people stuck to the legal side of things, that doesn't necessarily make it alright. Lots of things are fully legal but also creepy and invasive and weird.

There's a reason the phandom is considered terrifying, and the sheer invasiveness (is that even a word) is one of the biggest parts of it. I know people on IDB tend to say "but we're very reasonable here", but I think lines tend to get blurrier the longer you're surrounded by a group of people, and it's easy to cross them. I know I came here with a very different perspective than I have now, and I do wonder if I, too, have gone too far.

I think it's hard to really enforce these kinds of things in a group as large and varied as the phandom. But they do say 'change starts with yourself' so I think the more people say 'this is invasive, I'm not going to participate', the more it slowly breaks up that culture of invasiveness. I do think it's possible to have a good, supportive, non-invasive fandom (Thomas Sanders has sure managed it), but it's also going to take a lot of effort from our side. And even if it's just this little corner of the fandom, that would still be a tiny bit of improvement, right? I know I only participate with the phandom on this forum, I don't follow anything phan related literally anywhere else (just the boys themselves), but a lot of you do go outside the forum as well, so an example could be set there just through behaviour.

(sidenote: while writing this, I just thought: what if dan did a mental health video with thomas sanders through his anxiety character? is that too wild a thought? it's two very conflicting styles of video making but the concept of taking your anxiety and making it a separate character you can interact with is a very interesting one.)

(pps: I tend to go back and forth between opinions, so uh, sorry for that in advance. My brain is annoying and weird and a big ol' mess and it's often hard for me to untangle the mess of thoughts into an actual coherent opinion.)

[MaggieW]

Re: mental health

I think the discussion has moved from this but I want to say something regardless.

I don't think that Dan needs to show his diagnosis (if he even has one) for people to believe him. We know that Dan doesn't speak about something unless he knows about it, or at least that's who I see him, someone who is very careful to not speak in an insensitive way. If he says that he has anxiety and agoraphobia, why we shouldn't believe him? I think it's better to believe in someone who might be over exaggerating (I'm not saying that Dan does, tho) than to dismiss someone who suffers and tries to share their experience with their audience.

When it comes to agoraphobia, there's "levels" of it. There is people who can't leave the house at all, others who can leave their houses but only with people they trust, etc etc... mental health problems are different for everyone, and just because someone says that they have an issue with it doesn't mean that they are experiencing the same problems as other people.

Also, about the jokes being harmful... maybe they influence younger people to joke on things that they don't have. But I think in this case it's more important that Dan can have a coping mechanism that might help him with his problems. Yes, joking about suicide and stuff it's not good, but at least people are talking about it and that might be helpful for others to be more open about their issues, if they want to. At least that's how I see it.

Edit: I totally agree with what @fancybum said. I'm not comfortable talking about their flat soooo I'm going to wait for another conversation.

[thatdanandphilguy]

It just doesn’t make sense to me how especially Dan is quite vocal about social justice stuff lately and still chooses to affiliate himself with Felix. It doesn’t make sense. If you’re anti-racism, anti-homophobia etc., how can you just accept a friend publicly being a racist twat? I think it’s all about how powerful Felix is in the Youtube world and nobody seems to want to be on his bad side. He reminds me a bit of a school bully: Everyone tries to be friends with the popular boy even though his behaviour is horrible just so he doesn’t turn on them. Felix even sent his fanboys after J.K. Rowling. She was having none of it but I doubt fellow Youtubers want that kind of attention from his fanbase. Seriously, I just can’t see why deppy would genuinely want to be friends with someone like Felix. Unless of course the image I have of them is all wrong but I really hope that’s not the case. I don't expect them to speak up about it but they seriously need to stop mentioning Felix at all. The "We played this game with Felix and Marzia before" comment in the last gaming stream was all kinds of unnecessary and all it does is make it seem like they still support Felix and that's just sad.

Who says they're accepting it? They haven't commented the issue at all and that isn't the same as accepting his behaviour. They mentioned him on stream BEFORE he made that racist comment. Pretty sure if he had made the comment before their live stream, they would have never mentioned him (and Marzia).

edit: reading your message again, you didn't only have issue with this new comment but with other stuff Felix has said/done, so my comment is probably totally unnecessary.

Dan's new video was amazing, probably my fave from this year. I love all the sketches, very classic danisnotonfire video.

[Vanderlyle]

RE: floor plan

idk - it's strange to me that discussions of their apartment would be more invasive than discussions of the nature/ intimacies of their relationship... or their mental health. i would much rather people speculate about my home than my personal flaws/ relationships.

as Katka said, it isn't done out of the spirit of stalking. from my understanding, there is absolutely zero intent of locating their apartment, but for the purpose of understanding them in "space". like- i moved far away for grad school and my mom visited and wanted to see my school and class rooms so she could imagine me in my daily life/ understand my day better. i feel like the apartment speculation comes from a place of endearment. plus, i believe many of us grew up watching home improvement/ interior design shows. as someone in my mid-twenties, that's the kind of content i crave ha

just adding my two cents - obviously, everyone has their own moral barometer and that is ok - there are more defined lines that should not be crossed - other than that, to each their own, basically

[goingbackto505]

I agree w/ fancybum , and tbh I was thinking of mentioning the point LtrllySusan brought up, but decided that then my opinions would just be too unpopular and I'd probably start something/upset everyone. I noticed that a lot of people seem to care about Dan's mental health and his struggles (which is not a bad thing, to care, I mean), but then the same people sometimes go kinda overboard with their sherlocking. I myself find it a bit creepy, so I choose not to participate in the house plan/room sharing discourse. but you guys can do whatever, obviously, it's not against the law or anything lol . it's just, since Dan and Phil have already expressed their refusal to do an apartment tour video, that means they're not ready and aren't really comfortable with some things to be seen by their audience (yet?). and since they're uncomfortable, I'd imagine that when people are trying to go out of their ways to find all the information they're not willing to share atm and are actively discussing it everywhere (what starts on IDB finds its way on tumblr, from tumblr it goes to twitter, from twitter to insta, and then suddenly people are accusing Phil of lying about where he sleeps right in his comment section), maybe that could be one of the sources of Dan's anxiety? but that's just an assumption, even though imo it can't be too far off. I think he was half joking/half serious here, for example

again, I don't think there's too much harm in speculation and sometimes it can be fun, but idk, maybe that's one thing people need to at least consider when they're speculating, aka that it can not only be "wholesome fun", but also can be invasive at certain points.

Also, about the jokes being harmful... maybe they influence younger people to joke on things that they don't have. But I think in this case it's more important that Dan can have a coping mechanism that might help him with his problems. Yes, joking about suicide and stuff it's not good, but at least people are talking about it and that might be helpful for others to be more open about their issues, if they want to. At least that's how I see it.

I understand what you're saying, but my problem is with the way Dan does that. his twitter is definitely not his personal account anymore, he uses it mostly for business purposes and to communicate with his fanbase, and like he himself said, he doesn't use it to express personal opinions that much because he has a huge following, so he's fully aware that the things he tweets can have an influence on his fans and he's aware that everything he does on his public social media can have consequences. so I personally think that it's possible for Dan to find a different approach when it comes to his coping mechanisms, for example, are tweets like these really necessary on his public account?

I think it wouldn't hurt him to at least tone it down a bit. but I understand that everyone has a different opinion about Dan's "inevergooutsidelol" jokes, and that's totally fine, opinions are opinions. Dan will keep doing what he wants anyway, and he's definitely not the most problematic person ever by any means, so he definitely shouldn't be attacked for his jokes, albeit they can be upsetting for many people, including me.

[goldenmermaid]

RE: floor plan

idk - it's strange to me that discussions of their apartment would be more invasive than discussions of the nature/ intimacies of their relationship... or their mental health. i would much rather people speculate about my home than my personal flaws/ relationships.

as Katka said, it isn't done out of the spirit of stalking. from my understanding, there is absolutely zero intent of locating their apartment, but for the purpose of understanding them in "space". like- i moved far away for grad school and my mom visited and wanted to see my school and class rooms so she could imagine me in my daily life/ understand my day better. i feel like the apartment speculation comes from a place of endearment. plus, i believe many of us grew up watching home improvement/ interior design shows. as someone in my mid-twenties, that's the kind of content i crave ha

just adding my two cents - obviously, everyone has their own moral barometer and that is ok - there are more defined lines that should not be crossed - other than that, to each their own, basically

Just wanted to say I agree with this! I think speculation about houseplans is fine as long as we're using info deppy themselves have shown us.
And it does seem strange people are willing to discuss in-depth someone's mental health and personal relationships, but not the aspects of their home that they are literally showing us?

[captainspacecoat]

Re: house layout - I understand why people would feel uncomfortable by it, as we all have our personal limits (speaking for myself, I was never a fan of busgate, although I understand why others were), but I personally don't think this crosses a line. People are working purely off shots they have filmed and shared with us, and it makes sense to me to try and make sense of the images of their house that we've been presented with. Their apartment is undeniably confusing, and it helps to try and put it all in perspective. If people were trying to work out where they live, or basing things off information they had not willingly shared with us, then that would be another story. But as it stands, this is all stuff they have shown us, so I think it's fair game for people to analyse it.

Re: mental health - I think I've mostly made my opinion pretty clear already, but I just wanted to add that I don't think it's fair to accuse Dan of glorifying mental illness. The term 'glorifying' suggests romanticisation, and that is definitely not what Dan does. If anything, he tends to present himself as a bit of a mess, emphasising his flaws rather than painting them in an aspirational or desirable light. When Dodie was accused of glorifying/romanticising mental illness, these accusations were based on the artsy, aesthetic instagram pictures which she'd caption with long poetic posts about depression, or the comments she'd make about how 'creatives tend to be more depressed than most people' etc. I don't think that's what Dan is doing, although I can certainly appreciate why some of his more depressing jokes could be offensive to people with depression. I don't see them as glorifying mental illness, nor do I see them as making light of depression/suicide - I see them as a coping mechanism. However, I'm sensitive to why people might not see things this way, I just don't think 'glorification' is the right term to use. Apologies for that rant that made no sense whatsoever, I am v tired.

Edited to add - Every morning I wake up and hope they've unfollowed pewdiepie on twitter, alas I am constantly disappointed. My dream scenario is for them to make a statement calling him out, but that'll never happen, so the most I can allow myself to hope for is for them to never mention him again in any capacity.

[autumnhearth]

LtrllySusan re: privacy and mental health, that is a very important point to consider. I dare say it extends to a lot of things we discuss here, not just apartment layout, but I can see why that feels particularly invasive.

I will comment on a couple things said on this first page relating to what Dan and Phil have said about the layout and internet. I admit indepth screenshot analysis is creepy, but I think what I have to say below is actually quite eloquent.

So what if... there are two flats. And they usually just film down there, take the SD card up to the bigger phlat, edit and upload from there. The WiFi kinda reaches to the phake phlat, but it's kinda crap. Therefore, bad internet in the gaming room. When they realised that for the gaming streams they made it a bigger story line (bad internet provider) while they could get internet set up in the other place.

Or they just have shit internet in general? I just still can't believe a Youtuber would have a 0.25 Mbts upload :eh:

I personally believe Phil when he said that when they were looking at the place they were told the internet would be great, with fiber optic cable. But then when they moved in it wasn't there, and couldn't be installed in that building. So they went with a different plan and found it didn't work well for streaming, not just in the gaming room, but it seems downstairs in general. That is probably why they both do their liveshows upstairs (that or they just really prefer the lighting/ aesthetic up there), when during the first liveshow (yes I rewatched it recently) they were planning on showing the upstairs only through pics on Instagram and Twitter.

So it seems like they did have a plan to keep things more separate and more private upstairs, but life happened and they had to go with the flow. I personally would love to see more of the downstairs, which seems to be more intended for us. (Though I think they do use the slounge for some gaming, especially when they are gaming separately.) It's where most of their old stuff is and where they planned to film. They gave the reason of not wanting haul camera equipment upstairs, so I find it funny that up until his most recent video, most of Dan's sketch scenes were shot upstairs, but I think those were all hand held.

Mind you I don't think that means the downstairs is "fake" or "one big set". Sure it features several "sets", but I think the way we use the word "set" has become almost synonymous with a rouse or that it is disingenuous. This isn't reality tv, this is their job and those rooms are their offices, whether they contain a desk and computer or a colorful bedspread. This place was bought and set up for work: the gaming room, filming spaces for dinof and AP and a space for their familiar furniture: the sofa crease, colorful dining chairs, and knickknacks that they realized and acknowledged their audience had grown attached to, but perhaps they had grown detached from because of it being on the internet, in their book and turned into guessable things on Akinator. All those things are part of "the world of Dan & Phil", but maybe after TATINOF they wanted a place to just be Dan and Phil.

I think the upstairs is that escape, that breath of fresh air and so much light, a place to explore their adult interior design aesthetics, no matter how minimalistic and pre-furnished it appears. And yes, have some privacy. But they didn't completely close us off from it, it was featured in birthday tweets and pizza and politics. And then became the backdrops for their liveshows, maybe for the lighting (Phil), maybe for the aesthetic (Dan), maybe for the internet connection (both) and maybe because for Dan at least, he wants his liveshows to feel more personal.

This is the only "two apartments theory" I buy into, the one *they* already told us right from the beginning. An upstairs and a downstairs connected by at least one set of interior stairs, that *could* function as two separate flats and in a way *do*, but they also overlap in the blending of work and life and minor fame on the internet and I think it's all beautiful.

[MaggieW]

I understand what you're saying, but my problem is with the way Dan does that. his twitter is definitely not his personal account anymore, he uses it mostly for business purposes and to communicate with his fanbase, and like he himself said, he doesn't use it to express personal opinions that much because he has a huge following, so he's fully aware that the things he tweets can have an influence on his fans and he's aware that everything he does on his public social media can have consequences. so I personally think that it's possible for Dan to find a different approach when it comes to his coping mechanisms, for example, are tweets like these really necessary on his public account?

I think it wouldn't hurt him to at least tone it down a bit. but I understand that everyone has a different opinion about Dan's "inevergooutsidelol" jokes, and that's totally fine, opinions are opinions. Dan will keep doing what he wants anyway, and he's definitely not the most problematic person ever by any means, so he definitely shouldn't be attacked for his jokes, albeit they can be upsetting for many people, including me.

I totally understand why you are upset, and it's totally ok to feel that way!
I just thought that, in this case, is more important for Dan to be open about this issues in the way that he feels comfortable doing so, if that helps him, than a few people being influenced by this. But, like I said, I understand why it might be upsetting, I sometimes get mad when people make jokes about OCD and how ~cool~ is to have it, but I think the difference here is that he is actually struggling with mild agoraphobia.

[blackdenim]

Pewdiepie drama

Last time this came up I was one of the minority that thought Felix was just making a bad joke and trying to be edgy, and didn't see why D&P would want to/have to stop being friends with him. This feels different to me though. If one of my friends used that word so casually, there is no way I would believe they weren't racist, and I don't think I'd be able to keep being friends with them as a result. I hope Dan and Phil feel the same way about Felix now but I appreciate it's not as black and white as that when you're friends with someone. And again this goes back to the rolemodel thing. Do they have to stop being friends with someone for the sake of looking good to their audience? No. Do I hope that they feel morally that they can't be friends with him anymore? Yes.

Quoting this from the previous thread because I'm in the same situation here, in that I understood his previous controversy as a bad joke & not something you'd necessarily have to cut ties with a person for. But this new situation has opened my eyes and while I doubt dan&phil would ever say anything about it, because they've almost never adressed problematic behavior in the past, I hope they at least stop associating with him publicly. I know it's hard to "unfriend" someone irl, especially when you have mutual friends (plus they're like the least confrontational people on Youtube I know about), I'm only hoping for no more positive liveshow mentions or tweets.

Yeah I think no more liveshow mentions or tweets are the best we can hope for re: PDP. As you say, they're not confrontational and 'addressing drama' isn't really how they roll. As you say, they have mutual friends with him that I'm sure they'll continue to want to be friends with, so they can't publicly (or even privately, really) denounce him. But I hope they don't do anything that could be seen as endorsing/normalising his behaviour at least.

I also agree that it seems more invasive (to me!) to try and work out or speculate on the intimate parts of their relationship than to try and work out the floorplan of their flat. I have seen some speculation/fantasy - not on here so much, probably on Tumblr/Twitter more - that has made me feel far more uncomfortable than people comparing window frames and reflections in Magic 8 balls! But at least we can all scroll past the bits of the conversation we don't like. And it's not like anyone here is planning on finding/leaking their address and turning up at their house (I hope!) just as it's not like anyone is planning on somehow forcing them to read their dirty fanfic (I hope!) so at the end of the day it's all pretty harmless.

[thephandommenace]

I've only just caught up with this thread so most people have already said what I wanted to say but for the record I love you all and this site

@gohomohowell no please don't go! I don't believe anyone on here was attacking you, much less that anyone here hates you, merely that they disagreed with your opinion. When I first came on here I found it extremely anxiety-inducing to post anything and then when some of my posts got disagreed with I wanted to run away and hide. But after spending a bit longer on here I found it easier to separate disagreement from dislike. Also looking back the disagreements that made me so anxious weren't huge attacks like I thought at the time, more along the lines of "nah" or a bit of an eyeroll if I said something I now realise was stupid or unintentionally harmful/something I wasn't aware had already been discussed to death.
Still, that's not to say no posts on here aren't without attack. I've read some arguments on here that have made me extremely uncomfortable, mainly caused by people not paying attention to the language they use or people not realising they're being rude. If we could all take a little care to be kinder to each other, even if we disagree, and if we're being disagreed with check to see if that person is genuinely coming for us or just that, simply disagrees, a lot of hurt feelings could be spared (and in more extreme cases, triggering mental illness or causing people to up and leave).

For the most part though I think this site is much better than most. We take a lot of care not to post things that would cause Deppy potential irl harm, like their current whereabouts or easily accessible links to voldy. Figuring out the apartment layout personally doesn't interest me but I don't find it any more invasive than mental health/ sexuality/ relationship status discussion. It's not any different from gossip you'd have with your irl friends and it's using information made publicly available.

Tl;dr: be gentle, be careful, and I love everyone
Also this site allowed me to meet sparkle irl which was pretty great, so

P.S.
[Offtopic]I tried to watch SocialRepose's response to PDP and ended up rage-quitting and unsubscribing due to him saying "well,
iDubbbz [uses the n-word], so..."
If anyone else watched the video, was I too hasty? It sounded like a defence of Felix's use of the n-word but maybe he opposed it later? Though there were a load of white people in the comments saying "yeah, it's only a word, people are so sensitive wow" and I was pretty disgusted, so so far I feel just in my unsubscribing. [/Offtopic]