Dan & Phil Part 58: Come in my lady door

[sleepdeprivation22]

Anybody else feeling like the awkward third wheel at dinner with a couple who's fighting behind the scenes?

I'm not implying that Dan and Phil are fighting btw, moreso that this live show is a total mess. And Dan is like... manic and... all the topics are super shallow and I just keeping thinking "what is going on?" to myself.

Oh god I thought I was the only one. I joke about them flirting on camera a lot but that really seemed couply bickering with a layer of awkwardness knowing they're being watched. The whole Buffy made Phil quiver was top notch third wheeling for me, I cringed from second-hand embarrassment.

It was a very..random live show? They talked for 45 minutes and yet I feel like they said nothing at all. I don't mind, they made me laugh out loud quite a few times which is honestly what I needed, but I guess the tense atmosphere in the phandom was making me expect something negative I guess.

Halloween baking confirmed and filled with sugar, I wonder if it'll be the new era of post baking universe? Though at this point I wonder how much more open they can be without straight out confirm it.

I love how Phil talked about why Dan got half of the credit for the game even though it was originally his idea, the cute story about their premiere traditions and mentioning the movie dates.. I sometimes like to entertain the idea they have partners and wonder how the fuck would someone even fit in between how tied up with each other they are. I mean they live together and go to the cinema like every week and Dan gets frappuccinos for both of them like it's not even a question

oh my gOd im so exited for halloween baking, but i have no idea what to expect after last year's beautiful mess and im scared that they might (maybe subconsciously) tone it down a notch and act kinda awkward?
i mean last year's baking vid was filmed really late at night and i get why they acted so casual and so fucking extra and all lmao gold but i really wish that they wont be filtering their actions this year based on the phan-positive reactions the last bakind vid caused
(also im a new user and havent used a forum since gosupermodel back in like what fucking 2010 omg, so i have a little to no idea how this works, does the newest post appear on the last page?)

[kuensukki]

emerald, just want to quickly say that of course not every person of color is going to have the same reaction to racism and we've seen a spectrum of responses just here on the forum itself. but the people who matter most in this situation are those who are hurt. your lack of reaction to felix and to dnp is also not representative of all poc, and in fact i would wager that it's in the absolute minority. the quotes you pulled out are mostly referring to poc who have been hurt by felix and by dnp's association with him, bc theyre the people who matter in this discussion. if you don't care, if you're not hurt by it, great. more power to you. but you don't get to then invalidate all the people who do care and who are hurt.

also, forgive me if you are black but you didn't identify as such. but i will say this: anti-blackness amongst other poc groups is rampant, and the way you feel entitled to decide if a racial slur that has had a history of usage to dehumanize an entire race is not racist anymore is wildly inappropriate. as a personal example, i've never heard the n word (with the hard R, although that distinction seems fucking irrelevant) used more than amongst family friends of mine who are very, very indian. people of color who experience racism themselves can still be racist, and they especially can be (and /are/) racist towards black people whose specific histories of oppression they cannot relate to and never will. even if you /are/ black, then u must know how many people feel hurt and even retraumatized to hear that word in the mouths of those who aren't black. the context might change but the history does not. you don't get to decide how black people should feel about it just because it doesn't bother you.

edit: idk if u need to hear this but i'm very brown, not a 'white phannie' and i also don't know and perhaps will never understand why nonwhite people are so resentful of white people who want to be allies. if they talk over poc, of course that deserves criticism. but if they merely want to help point out the ways racism is manifesting amongst white people and in white circles, then that is helpful not harmful, and in fact it's necessary to facilitate the process of dismantling a system that allows racism to flourish unchecked.

I want to sign off on everything said above. I come from a middle eastern family and the amount of anti-black ideals and stereotypes I was raised with were enormous. The whole "be safe" "hang out with *good* people". I never thought about how influenced I was until I did and then I had to relearn and reshape myself. I guess because I live in the Bay Area and grew up in a culture where the n-word was said by everyone black and non-black (because they'd maintained they got the hood pass) I shouldn't think much of the word right? I should not care or be desensitized to the use of a slur because now its apparently lost its meaning. But the thing is, people are very much still offended by this word. I was talking to a coworker yesterday about this issue and she told me how her grandma used to be a slave and how they never called her anything but that word. Why are people so fucking insistent on maintaining its a word of the past that doesn't carry all the lynching, abuse, and overall negative connotations that it does. Why did white people choose to use the word again, but now as a slur (or something edgy under the brand of humor) WHO ALLOWED THEM THE CHOICE, when there are MILLIONS of other words they could use? It doesn't make sense to me.

Theres so much more to comment on. First off misakichan274 *inserts sweeties youre doing amazing gif* Your post really resonated with me.

missemma your post was really well put (and the sneaking off the write an idb post in the loo was too relatable)

coffeepenguin I'm glad you brought up the notion of uncomfortable issues because my conservative muslim background made the concept of sexuality and homophobia pretty fucking uncomfortable. Did that mean I didnt go to the mosque and fight every guy that said a homophobic slur or said "thats gay". I fought (and won cuz im aggressive af for things I care about) many discussions and even worked to change peoples viewpoints about homosexuality and why religion is actually okay with it. And it didn't even apply to me, and I was young and the concept was uncomfortable but I knew it wasn't FAIR and that made me care. DP are grown men that live online. They are surrounded by racism in London and have had their fair share of interactions with poc individuals. They even lived with drake in their tour bus. They haven't just been in their bubble even tho they've certainly only cared for their bubble. They know about this issue and they know that some people would be offended. It doesn't matter if someone is uncomfortable. Showing some sort of indication that you are aware of these issues and dont support them goes a long way, it might even make some of the white phannies care about the issue since their fave discussed it.

I agree with those who said they will still watch dps content but from a slightly detached lens. I realized for a while that I saw more to them then just two white guys that have good chemistry and are sometimes funny. I befriended them in my head and in a way thought they were more than just two normal dudes so yea that was my fault. I realize I can still watch what they make and even maybe still be entertained by it but from a more normal lens which yay because I could never get into med school with them distracting me.

Lastly I was searching my replies to a tweet I made about dan talking to pdp and many were confused at what pdp even did and actually believed that dans words would fix everything and the world would continue to be sunshine and rainbows. So all of our predictions that the majority of the phandom wasnt aware about the racist remarks or cant be bothered to care or ask dp about it stands. I thought it was a much bigger issue but thats because my close group of online friends all felt the same as me and I assumed that applied to everyone (maybe I just have really awesome friends). Anyway, maybe over time I will kinda get past this (not forget it but learn to live with the niggling disappointment) but one thing I wont get past is the phandom and their ignorance about racial issues.

[Yourmomsleftnutsack]

This PewDiePie discussion has been going on for way too long. You all need to calm the fuck down. All this talk about how you're going to unstan if dan and phil continue being friends with him, like sit the fuck down. You're all so far up your asses. Felix didn't use that word in a racist way. He didn't go up to someone and call them that. He didn't refer to anyone as that. You're all just sitting on your high horses with your sensitive asses. Dan and Phil attended Felix's girlfriends birthday. Get over it. They didn't film a collab with pdp discussing racial slurs and how to use them. They showed up, talked, had some cake, and as far as we know, that was it. You can't expect them to cut Felix off completely just because of one wrong action, which he apologized for by the way. They wouldn't have any friends left if it was up to you idiots. Felix is a nice guy with an offensive taste in humor. You're all reaching for theories here. Like thinking dnp are only nice to him cuz they don't want Felix to 'out' them. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Maybe they just genuinely like him as a person. Get over yourselves.

I couldn't agree more

[potatoesoup]

I love it when white people decide on whether or not pewdiepie’s apology for using the n word was acceptable. The black community must be so relieved that all of these while people find the apology okay. Because the apology was definitely all about them!! Why would it matter what people of color who are actually affected by racism think? Let’s just call people dealing with inequality sjw’s to shut them up and get offended by them articulately expressing why Deppy hanging out with Felix hurt their feelings!!!

(And that is all I will say on the matter)

How bout you shut chu ass up, I'm a poc and couldn't give two flying shits... it is his mouth after all. He didn't mean it. Now shut the fuck up damn!! You ppl sound like a bunch of snowflakes, go back to tumblr ffs

[autumnhearth]

Charming username. Nope this forum is going to continue to be a space for people to expresss their thoughts and feelings related to D&P as much and for as long as they want/need to.

In the search for SMG related Phil things I found/remembered these gems. Not trying to prove he had the quivs, just fun at this point.

Speaking of portraits. At 1:08 Phil’s shows some of his dad’s artwork including...



May I just say that I am so glad that pinof didn’t follow this “male/female” question format.

Then there’s this photo from BBC Radio 1’s Facebook page, that Phil’s parents photoshopped for him. While it’s not implausible given the above and just how quirky and supportive the Lester’s are, I still have a sneaking suspicion Phil *might* have photoshopped it himself.

https://www.facebook.com/bbcradio1/phot ... 63/?type=3

Keep in mind the year.

Three years later Phil gets a shout out, but thankfully doesn’t follow it up with a marriage proposal.

I find Dan’s comments in yesterday’s liveshow and his reaction to Phil’s story of going into town to get a cardboard cut out of his waifu in the latest Sims video to be very sweet, supportive, nostalgic and very clear that his crush is a thing of the past.

[LtrllySusan]

Wow someone here has too many email adresses and too much time on their hands...

I know this is a Dan & Phil forum but since there isn't much new to talk about - PDP just uploaded a collab with Jacksepticeye. If anyone is involved in his fandom I'd love to hear how people there are reacting.

[kuensukki]

autumnhearth phils smg love is so intense, I remember watching his old university vlogs and he had his whole wall covered with her and cardboard cutouts not to mention his secret buffy Deviantart account. I might have cracked a smile yesterday when he said he quivered for her because it was so ridiculous but also strangely the most "attraction" mentions with get from the dude.

[lurkin]

Wow someone here has too many email adresses and too much time on their hands...

I know this is a Dan & Phil forum but since there isn't much new to talk about - PDP just uploaded a collab with Jacksepticeye. If anyone is involved in his fandom I'd love to hear how people there are reacting.

I used to be involved with the jacksepticeye fandom before kinda getting disinterested. honestly with him im not really surprised that he did upload a collab. it's disappointing in a sense, but i didnt expect anything different. was jack initially trying to distance himself from pewdiepie after everything happen, or did he kinda just stay silent?

[thewaytobehappy]

People in the comments are fine with it, from what I can tell.

Watching it right now. Haven't actually watched a vid from Felix in a while, but it's fun, fairly low energy. Not what I expect from a collab with Sean. They're testing Irish Whiskeys and it's very chill.

Also, apparently PJ in the background. Also heard Marzia.

[Light02]

I just realized something and now I'm angry. People are outraged that D&P even associate with someone who said the n-word but Dan himself has literally said the word "hoe" at least once that I can remember which is a misogynistic slur and apparently no one cares. Can someone tell me what the difference is?

[thewaytobehappy]

I just realized something and now I'm angry. People are outraged that D&P even associate with someone who said the n-word but Dan himself has literally said the word "hoe" at least once that I can remember which is a misogynistic slur and apparently no one cares. Can someone tell me what the difference is?

Favoritism. Let's be real here.

[wiccamoody]

I just realized something and now I'm angry. People are outraged that D&P even associate with someone who said the n-word but Dan himself has literally said the word "hoe" at least once that I can remember which is a misogynistic slur and apparently no one cares. Can someone tell me what the difference is?

I am pretty sure dan has never said "hoe", or "thot" for that matter, in a way that didn't relate to a meme or was ironic. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't saying it in a derogatory way. After all, hoe gets thrown around a lot these days, and the connotations aren't nearly as bad as saying the n word.

(idk if i just turned myself into a hypocrite or not lol..)

[venividivicivino]

I think the PDP discussion has been mostly amazing on here, something I credit you all for! The obvious trolls/sock accounts, etc., can continue to claim how stupid having a discourse is while actively trying to shut it down. I feel similarly about pdp - I don't believe there is any excuse for his actions. He's a grown man who has said racist statements that many many people have said offended and/or hurt them, he's made off-color jokes which have hurt people, and he hasn't learned. I am always shocked by people that believe offensive humor is valuable - if you have to be offensive to be funny, you are not funny. And not all topics are off-limits but unless you're actively and clearly punching down on the racists, misogynists, abusers, etc... it's probably not funny and you shouldn't even try. Those that disagree are as welcome to their opinions as anyone else.

As for Dan&Phil, I find they have been in the past actively misogynist and are clearly improving but I also give them the credit for halting a lot of the behavior. I'm not going to drop them for daring to associate with pdp but I'm not opposed to continuing to discuss how it disappoints me and why whenever it is relevant. As for the misogynistic slurs, so many people don't realize the connotations - the word "bitch", "pussy", "whore", even "twat" etc, are technically misogynistic insults but many of them are so intertwined with culture that it's not an active choice because no one has really truly considered their language or considers them as referring to exclusively females anymore. I'd be happy if D&P switched to gender-neutral or exclusively male-anatomy based curses but I'm not actively bothered by it because culturally it is different although I understand if others are.

In other news, if the conversation is moving on, I'm hyped for SpOoKy WeEk!!! I only just got into Dan and Phil so I'm excited to go through it live- I've had an awful week and something fun and Halloween-themed should be nice.

[secretagentphan]

I love it when white people decide on whether or not pewdiepie’s apology for using the n word was acceptable. The black community must be so relieved that all of these while people find the apology okay. Because the apology was definitely all about them!! Why would it matter what people of color who are actually affected by racism think? Let’s just call people dealing with inequality sjw’s to shut them up and get offended by them articulately expressing why Deppy hanging out with Felix hurt their feelings!!!

(And that is all I will say on the matter)

How bout you shut chu ass up, I'm a poc and couldn't give two flying shits... it is his mouth after all. He didn't mean it. Now shut the fuck up damn!! You ppl sound like a bunch of snowflakes, go back to tumblr ffs

LOL

anyways... as a female I’m gonna go on record and say “hoe” and the n word are definitely not the same thing... it’s reminds me of that John Mulaney bit where someone told him m*dget is just as bad as the n word and he said “well you’re not even saying the n word so clearly not entirely” or something like that. Dan never used the word hoe to actually slut shame anyone either. Women’s rights are serious and I am a feminist but like... you can’t even pretend that the history behind the n word is WAY darker. It’s very tense on idb right now though so I hope I didn’t rub anyone the wrong way. This is an important but difficult discussion!

[obscureDnPreference]

I just realized something and now I'm angry. People are outraged that D&P even associate with someone who said the n-word but Dan himself has literally said the word "hoe" at least once that I can remember which is a misogynistic slur and apparently no one cares. Can someone tell me what the difference is?

I am pretty sure dan has never said "hoe", or "thot" for that matter, in a way that didn't relate to a meme or was ironic. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't saying it in a derogatory way. After all, hoe gets thrown around a lot these days, and the connotations aren't nearly as bad as saying the n word.

(idk if i just turned myself into a hypocrite or not lol..)

Was this recently? If so, then yeah, it would be semi-hypocritical for us. (I say 'semi' because hoe is very different than the n-word. Still a slur. Still offensive, but it's different.) If not, then I'd say it's not hypocritical. Not because it's not offensive, but because people grow and learn from time. We've said this before with Dan. He's acted and said some not good stuff in his younger years, but he's grown (hopefully). That doesn't seem to be the case with pdp. He might be learning, but it's not like he said and did shitty stuff years ago. It was mere months.

But I don't know when Dan said it, so I'm just talking out of nowhere. If you could find videos, it would be much appreciated! Thanks!

[nachofiesta]

you guys gonna call dan homophobic and racist now too or do you only do that with felix?

[grenadine]

you guys gonna call dan homophobic and racist now too or do you only do that with felix?

Ermmm, what?

[alittledizzy]

Fyi: Context of an barely-eighteen year old who has already said that as a teenager he was bullied and called slurs like that daily telling people that he wants them to make a holiday related video and send it to him even if all it says is - and then cuts to the clip that nacho posted. In fact, literally the tweet above that one in the thread linked gives the context. (Under a spoiler cut because the tweet text itself contains the offensive language that Dan uses.)

Dan wasn't saying that to anyone, he was saying that he knew people would say that to him. All that does is remind me that Dan went through some shit as a teenager and fully expected that when people engaged with him online, he'd continue to get awful people telling him to kill himself and calling him horrible names like that. Not remotely the same as anything Felix has ever said.

[wiccamoody]

I just realized something and now I'm angry. People are outraged that D&P even associate with someone who said the n-word but Dan himself has literally said the word "hoe" at least once that I can remember which is a misogynistic slur and apparently no one cares. Can someone tell me what the difference is?

I am pretty sure dan has never said "hoe", or "thot" for that matter, in a way that didn't relate to a meme or was ironic. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't saying it in a derogatory way. After all, hoe gets thrown around a lot these days, and the connotations aren't nearly as bad as saying the n word.

(idk if i just turned myself into a hypocrite or not lol..)

Was this recently? If so, then yeah, it would be semi-hypocritical for us. (I say 'semi' because hoe is very different than the n-word. Still a slur. Still offensive, but it's different.) If not, then I'd say it's not hypocritical. Not because it's not offensive, but because people grow and learn from time. We've said this before with Dan. He's acted and said some not good stuff in his younger years, but he's grown (hopefully). That doesn't seem to be the case with pdp. He might be learning, but it's not like he said and did shitty stuff years ago. It was mere months.

But I don't know when Dan said it, so I'm just talking out of nowhere. If you could find videos, it would be much appreciated! Thanks!

I don't remember either (I have a feeling he probably directed the word at phil once?), so if someone can find videos like what obscureDnPreference was saying, that would be great!

[Ewok]

you guys gonna call dan homophobic and racist now too or do you only do that with felix?

Context who? I don't know her.

It's literally the tweet above the one you posted. Dan is mocking homophobes that may respond to his video where he requested holiday themed video responses.

edit: oops I see Dizzy beat me to it.

[lishachi]

Not to brush any of these conversations under the carpet, I'm just curious about what they'll play, also I don't have anything to add to the discussion right now.

So what games do you think they'll upload this week?

I was thinking maybe some VR games (the IT one looks cool), Resident Evil 7, Bendy and the Ink Machine, The Evil Within 2, Hello Neighbor. They're all pretty long aside from Hello Neighbor which seems more funny and frustrating than scary. Anyway, I'm intrigued.

I'm in the mood to be spooked though.

[Light02]

I just realized something and now I'm angry. People are outraged that D&P even associate with someone who said the n-word but Dan himself has literally said the word "hoe" at least once that I can remember which is a misogynistic slur and apparently no one cares. Can someone tell me what the difference is?

I am pretty sure dan has never said "hoe", or "thot" for that matter, in a way that didn't relate to a meme or was ironic. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't saying it in a derogatory way. After all, hoe gets thrown around a lot these days, and the connotations aren't nearly as bad as saying the n word.

(idk if i just turned myself into a hypocrite or not lol..)

Was this recently? If so, then yeah, it would be semi-hypocritical for us. (I say 'semi' because hoe is very different than the n-word. Still a slur. Still offensive, but it's different.) If not, then I'd say it's not hypocritical. Not because it's not offensive, but because people grow and learn from time. We've said this before with Dan. He's acted and said some not good stuff in his younger years, but he's grown (hopefully). That doesn't seem to be the case with pdp. He might be learning, but it's not like he said and did shitty stuff years ago. It was mere months.

But I don't know when Dan said it, so I'm just talking out of nowhere. If you could find videos, it would be much appreciated! Thanks!

I don't remember the exact video but it was a Sims video with Dab in it, so it must have been semi-recently.

And as a response to everyone who quoted me, the general argument you're making seems to be "misogyny and misogynistic language are so widespread that it's not that big of a deal". I completely disagree, if anything, I think that makes misogyny even worse, it shows how desensitizied everyone is to it, even women and people who pass as women (like me). Reminds me of the fact that the "adorkable misogynist" trope is still alive and well on TV. Here's a video on the topic:

Can you imagine if there was a similar trope called "the adorkable racist"? Most people would be outraged, as they should be! Racism is obviously a huge problem that needs to be talked about. But I can't help but notice that in comparison there are other societal issues that are just as important that the public is more desensitizied to and that get talked about more rarely.

Another example that I can give is ableism and ableist slurs. Most decent people nowadays agree that we shouldn't use the r-word as it used to be (or maybe it still is? I'm not sure.) a diagnosis and now is being used as an insult. But did you know that the word "stupid" also used to be a diagnosis? I only learned about this last year and it made me realize just how little ableism is talked about, how desensitizied everyone is to it and how widespread it is, despite the fact that the disabled community is arguably the most marginalized in society. Here's a post outlining problems disabled people face:

http://thediscourseblogs.tumblr.com/pos ... tual-thing

This got a bit off-topic but the point I'm making is that I don't necessarily think that certain slurs are worse than others, it's just that the issues the public takes seriously change and even though the word "stupid" is incredibly offensive and has an oppressive history behind it, currently nobody considers it a slur. So I don't agree that misogyny and misogynistic language isn't as bad as racism.

[Lucyrg95]

Not to brush any of these conversations under the carpet, I'm just curious about what they'll play, also I don't have anything to add to the discussion right now.

So what games do you think they'll upload this week?

I was thinking maybe some VR games (the IT one looks cool), Resident Evil 7, Bendy and the Ink Machine, The Evil Within 2, Hello Neighbor. They're all pretty long aside from Hello Neighbor which seems more funny and frustrating than scary. Anyway, I'm intrigued.

I'm in the mood to be spooked though.

you could be right with Hello Neighbor since they said in the liveshow they didn't think it'd be as scary as it actually was, I know that I always jump when he comes chasing after you but I don't know if I'm just a wimp

[sherotrash]

As for the misogynistic slurs, so many people don't realize the connotations - the word "bitch", "pussy", "whore", even "twat" etc, are technically misogynistic insults but many of them are so intertwined with culture that it's not an active choice because no one has really truly considered their language or considers them as referring to exclusively females anymore. I'd be happy if D&P switched to gender-neutral or exclusively male-anatomy based curses but I'm not actively bothered by it because culturally it is different although I understand if others are.

Okay while I understand why people would not want to watch Felix anymore, (but don't understand why you'd feel differently towards Dan and Phil for being friends with him even though they know him much better than we do and they would know if he was a horrible person) I can't help but find this interesting.
You excuse these words because "people don't realize the connotations" and it is "intertwined with culture".
Now I have always found that the discussion around the N word is very much drained in ethnocentrism. I am not from the US or UK, English is not my native language, black slavery has never been a part of my history and culture the way it is for Americans. Where I live, I see people use the N word, without ill intent. Because they're exposed to it through American music, TV and even memes. The N word with hard r in my language was used until really recently (a brand used it in their name until 2006 even), and even today people sometimes use it because they're not aware it's not as politically correct anymore, especially older people use it and it just means black person to them.
What I'm getting at is, I am not Swedish so of course I can't say for sure how things are for Felix. But as for me, I learned how the N word was treated by English speaking people through the internet, and am aware how much it is seen as a horrible word, so I avoid using it online. But HONESTLY? It doesn't FEEL as bad to me. The same way I could tell you what the worst word in my language would be and you could avoid using it, but will you ever have the same emotional response to it?
Ever? And if you heard it everywhere, and constantly in online gaming are you sure you'd never let it slip?
I'm not entirely sure what it's like in Sweden, but I would like to ask you to wonder why you can excuse mysogynistic language based on modern context and culture, but not another word that never had quite the same weight to it in other countries.
Literally besides this pdp situation, it has always felt very americanocentric to me to uphold other countries to English countries' standards while using it in their media, knowing their media is the main one worldwide.

[missemma]

Fyi: Context of an barely-eighteen year old who has already said that as a teenager he was bullied and called slurs like that daily telling people that he wants them to make a holiday related video and send it to him even if all it says is - and then cuts to the clip that nacho posted. In fact, literally the tweet above that one in the thread linked gives the context. (Under a spoiler cut because the tweet text itself contains the offensive language that Dan uses.)

Dan wasn't saying that to anyone, he was saying that he knew people would say that to him. All that does is remind me that Dan went through some shit as a teenager and fully expected that when people engaged with him online, he'd continue to get awful people telling him to kill himself and calling him horrible names like that. Not remotely the same as anything Felix has ever said.

Well said. It seems though like there are some hungry people who are intent on trying to prove what a bad person Dan (and of course no mention of Phil) is.

Carry on reaching guys