Dan & Phil Part 37: A better way to live

[fancy_nancy]

The banner's really cute, I hope Phil has a great birthday and eats a lot of that red velvet cake he wanted.

[sweetmm]

This video made me appreciate the reason why Phil ensure his video makes his viewers smile

[malday]

awesome banner!
Phil is being really active right now in the youtube comments.

[psychicmoth]

THE BANNER IS AMAZING

Happy Birthday Philly! Beautiful moon, light of my life
I love this guy so much

[Catallena]

*whispers* Charlie was a minor so I sure hope Phil didn't date him..

HAPPY BIRTHDAY PHIL

I hope you have a great day If Dan is a brat, tell him to show respect to senior citizens.

The banner is so cool, good job mods of IDB

[oqua]

 |||| Happy birthday Phil! |||| 

Phil's video was great. Especially the tea leaves part! Fertility, domestic happiness, success in your career, working on a new project or there'll be an important change in your life, treachery from a friend (lol), cheerful and happy, despite your troubles you will sail into calmer waters.

How much more perfect could it be?

As for Dan's tweet...I was staring at the photos and I literally started tearing up lol Everything about it is just so cute. Dan's wavy hair, Dan's laugh, Dan's pout...Imagining Phil taking the photos...Imagining them goofing around together as Dan sits in that thing...Them being together on the Isle of Man for Phil's birthday. So cute. All of it. Ugh. I'm just so happy.

[dannonfill]

*whispers* Charlie was a minor so I sure hope Phil didn't date him.. :

mm... Happy birthday to Phil, sorry to discuss something negative

Charlie was 16/17 at the time, to Phil's 22. People's blasé reactions to their possible relationship always irked me... maybe we're the ones who don't get it, because 16 is the age of consent in England, but gee it does bother me, on a moral level.

[alittledizzy]

*whispers* Charlie was a minor so I sure hope Phil didn't date him.. :

mm... Happy birthday to Phil, sorry to discuss something negative

Charlie was 16/17 at the time, to Phil's 22. People's blasé reactions to their possible relationship always irked me... maybe we're the ones who don't get it, because 16 is the age of consent in England, but gee it does bother me, on a moral level.

Yeah - not legally a minor, but certainly younger than Phil.

This discussion has happened before both here, I think, and on the forum that shall not be named. I don't personally think anything that physical happened between them, but if it did then it was legal. (I happen to think Phil and Charlie were pretty on-par maturity wise at that age, but I also don't see Phil as someone who'd had a lot of relationship experience. Or any, imo, though I know other people disagree. And also doesn't mean people can't feel icky about the age difference, though that also seems like a matter of personal perspective and sometimes societal norm.)

[bluntedclaws]

Yay! Happy 30th birthday to Phil. Hope he has a lovely day.
In honour, for the 30th of January we have a new banner and you are all angel beans. Enjoy!

Aww, the new banner is really cute! Kudos to whoever made it.

[Catallena]

*whispers* Charlie was a minor so I sure hope Phil didn't date him.. :

mm... Happy birthday to Phil, sorry to discuss something negative

Charlie was 16/17 at the time, to Phil's 22. People's blasé reactions to their possible relationship always irked me... maybe we're the ones who don't get it, because 16 is the age of consent in England, but gee it does bother me, on a moral level.

Yeah the age of consent is the same in my country and I know that it was technically legal, but I'm just kinda about stuff like that. I'm particularly sensitive because my best friend was in a super toxic relationship with almost that exact age difference when we were teens, and it's just.. never good. Uni students/grads shouldn't be involved with high school students.. Legal doesn't always mean healthy.

/definitely offended people who are or have been in relationships like that.

I genuinely don't believe they were ever romantically involved.. they were close and did some questionable internet flirting sure but I don't think there was much else there.

*whispers* Charlie was a minor so I sure hope Phil didn't date him.. :

mm... Happy birthday to Phil, sorry to discuss something negative

Charlie was 16/17 at the time, to Phil's 22. People's blasé reactions to their possible relationship always irked me... maybe we're the ones who don't get it, because 16 is the age of consent in England, but gee it does bother me, on a moral level.

Yeah - not legally a minor, but certainly younger than Phil.

This discussion has happened before both here, I think, and on the forum that shall not be named. I don't personally think anything that physical happened between them, but if it did then it was legal. (I happen to think Phil and Charlie were pretty on-par maturity wise at that age, but I also don't see Phil as someone who'd had a lot of relationship experience. Or any, imo, though I know other people disagree. And also doesn't mean people can't feel icky about the age difference, though that also seems like a matter of personal perspective and sometimes societal norm.)

It's definitely plausible that in relationship experience they might've been on par, but a high schooler mostly thinks and pretends they're equal to their uni age significant other imo. In life experience and things like that they're (supposed to be) worlds apart. Plus it usually comes with an unhealthy imbalance in power. I think that often people in relationships like these think they're super equal because they both like the same things. The younger person thinks they're super mature for that, the older person thinks they have interests that aren't very mature at all and that that will make it difficult to date in their age range. In reality plenty (if not most) people from age 14 to 25 like a lot of the same stuff in terms of movies, books and games so none of that actually makes for a good romantic match. Especially not with an age difference.

[alittledizzy]

It's definitely plausible that in relationship experience they might've been on par, but a high schooler mostly thinks and pretends they're equal to their uni age significant other imo. In life experience and things like that they're (supposed to be) worlds apart. Plus it usually comes with an unhealthy imbalance in power. I think that often people in relationships like these think they're super equal because they both like the same things. The younger person thinks they're super mature for that, the older person thinks they have interests that aren't very mature at all and that that will make it difficult to date in their age range. In reality plenty (if not most) people from age 14 to 25 like a lot of the same stuff in terms of movies, books and games so none of that actually makes for a good romantic match. Especially not with an age difference.

Do you think the year that Dan had on Charlie made a big difference? Or does early Dan/Phil still hit the same squick with you? I fully understand why the idea of Phil and Charlie having a romantic connection upsets some people, and don't disagree with your reasoning. I think they were interested in each other and there was something there but I don't think it ever would have ended well, as it clearly didn't for Stephen and Charlie either. But Dan and Phil do prove the opposite end of that spectrum, having almost the same age and life experience difference but still working out just fine.

[mez29]

banner is so cute. hb phil

[secretagentphan]

Happy birthday Phil!! (Even though it isn't his birthday in America yet)

I'm about to watch his new video now, and I'm excited from what I've read on here!! I live for analyzing shit like this almost as much as I live for speculating about Dan spending Phil's 30th with the Leader family

[Catallena]

It's definitely plausible that in relationship experience they might've been on par, but a high schooler mostly thinks and pretends they're equal to their uni age significant other imo. In life experience and things like that they're (supposed to be) worlds apart. Plus it usually comes with an unhealthy imbalance in power. I think that often people in relationships like these think they're super equal because they both like the same things. The younger person thinks they're super mature for that, the older person thinks they have interests that aren't very mature at all and that that will make it difficult to date in their age range. In reality plenty (if not most) people from age 14 to 25 like a lot of the same stuff in terms of movies, books and games so none of that actually makes for a good romantic match. Especially not with an age difference.

Do you think the year that Dan had on Charlie made a big difference? Or does early Dan/Phil still hit the same squick with you? I fully understand why the idea of Phil and Charlie having a romantic connection upsets some people, and don't disagree with your reasoning. I think they were interested in each other and there was something there but I don't think it ever would have ended well, as it clearly didn't for Stephen and Charlie either. But Dan and Phil do prove the opposite end of that spectrum, having almost the same age and life experience difference but still working out just fine.

It does hit the same squick a little yeah. I guess at least Dan was 18 and out of school (so with his mind more on the future) when they met, but combined with Dan being a fan.. let's say that if I had been Dan's friend at the time I would've strongly advised against it. I guess Dan and Phil do fall under the exceptions, that they did find an emotional connection behind all the superficial shit like listening to Muse and playing Final Fantasy. And that that ultimately made them work (and still work) against all odds. It doesn't change my views on those type of age gaps though. And I also fully admit to hypocrisy; because I ship it and because I know it ended up in a healthy relationship, I tend to view the start of their relationship in a more favorable light than I usually would. Reading Charlie's old tweets (from when he was still close to Phil to the 2012 bully era) also gives me far more unhealthy obsessive vibes than Dan ever did, and I can't imagine a relationship like that ever being healthy even if there hadn't been an age gap. It just disturbs me.

[oqua]

On the subject of Charlie and Phil and their age difference, I always think of these quotes from a Charlieskies younow from March 2013:

“What’s the youngest age you would date?”

• “Right now, I would say sixteen. But—I don’t—yeah. That’s legal here. Thankfully!” [makes a weird face] (Charlie was 20 years 10 months old at this time)

“What’s the oldest you’d date?”

• “Ooh interesting. I would say 35. It’s not too bad; I’m 20. I’d like to be with someone who’s 35; that would be cool. But I think older people see me as someone who’s a cretin. So…that ain’t gon’ happen!”

“I’m 29.”

• “Cool! I hope you don’t hate me. Because older people tend to look at me and think: eugh.”

“What happens if you’re like 16 but then you can’t date any younger than you? That’s kinda unfair.”

• “I don’t know. Erm, yeah, I don’t know. When I was 16, for the person who just said ‘I’m 16 and I feel like a baby’: When I was 16, I was literally a fetus. I was tiny, and I had no idea what I was doing, and I was so scared of everything, and I didn’t understand anything. And I just wanted to hide forever. And that was a really long time ago. So yeah, when I talk to someone who’s 16, at first I kind of think about how I was at 16 and I think ‘oh god you’re so young!’ But then, these days people who are, like, 14, 15, 16 seem *much* more mature and self-aware than when I was that age. So I actually quite enjoy talking to younger people now.”

I don't really have any firm conclusions to draw from these quotes, but his description of himself as a 16-year-old is interesting ("I was tiny, and I had no idea what I was doing, and I was so scared of everything, and I didn’t understand anything. And I just wanted to hide forever"), as is his assertion that he'd like dating an older person.

I will say that the idea of Phil doing anything with Charlie while Charlie was only 16 does squick me out.

[lefthandedism]

It's definitely plausible that in relationship experience they might've been on par, but a high schooler mostly thinks and pretends they're equal to their uni age significant other imo. In life experience and things like that they're (supposed to be) worlds apart. Plus it usually comes with an unhealthy imbalance in power. I think that often people in relationships like these think they're super equal because they both like the same things. The younger person thinks they're super mature for that, the older person thinks they have interests that aren't very mature at all and that that will make it difficult to date in their age range. In reality plenty (if not most) people from age 14 to 25 like a lot of the same stuff in terms of movies, books and games so none of that actually makes for a good romantic match. Especially not with an age difference.

Do you think the year that Dan had on Charlie made a big difference? Or does early Dan/Phil still hit the same squick with you? I fully understand why the idea of Phil and Charlie having a romantic connection upsets some people, and don't disagree with your reasoning. I think they were interested in each other and there was something there but I don't think it ever would have ended well, as it clearly didn't for Stephen and Charlie either. But Dan and Phil do prove the opposite end of that spectrum, having almost the same age and life experience difference but still working out just fine.

It does hit the same squick a little yeah. I guess at least Dan was 18 and out of school (so with his mind more on the future) when they met, but combined with Dan being a fan.. let's say that if I had been Dan's friend at the time I would've strongly advised against it. I guess Dan and Phil do fall under the exceptions, that they did find an emotional connection behind all the superficial shit like listening to Muse and playing Final Fantasy. And that that ultimately made them work (and still work) against all odds. It doesn't change my views on those type of age gaps though. And I also fully admit to hypocrisy; because I ship it and because I know it ended up in a healthy relationship, I tend to view the start of their relationship in a more favorable light than I usually would. Reading Charlie's old tweets (from when he was still close to Phil to the 2012 bully era) also gives me far more unhealthy obsessive vibes than Dan ever did, and I can't imagine a relationship like that ever being healthy even if there hadn't been an age gap. It just disturbs me.

So on the age difference, would people see it differently if Dan had been a girl? If Phil had been a girl? If both had?

Seems to me that sexism/heteronormativity would suggest that an 18-year-old girl and a 22-year-old boy would be just fine (and would shudder at the reverse). Supposedly the age gap gets made up by the girl being "more mature" yada yada, but I would personally side-eye that harder than an 18-year-old boy and a 22-year-old boy.

Regardless, the age difference is a bit squicky at 22/18, but I'm guessing not so for most people by the time it gets to 24/20 or so.

I know that data suggest that people tend to most naturally match up with people close to their own age, but of course there is plenty of variability and age difference is only one of many factors.

[Catallena]

It's definitely plausible that in relationship experience they might've been on par, but a high schooler mostly thinks and pretends they're equal to their uni age significant other imo. In life experience and things like that they're (supposed to be) worlds apart. Plus it usually comes with an unhealthy imbalance in power. I think that often people in relationships like these think they're super equal because they both like the same things. The younger person thinks they're super mature for that, the older person thinks they have interests that aren't very mature at all and that that will make it difficult to date in their age range. In reality plenty (if not most) people from age 14 to 25 like a lot of the same stuff in terms of movies, books and games so none of that actually makes for a good romantic match. Especially not with an age difference.

Do you think the year that Dan had on Charlie made a big difference? Or does early Dan/Phil still hit the same squick with you? I fully understand why the idea of Phil and Charlie having a romantic connection upsets some people, and don't disagree with your reasoning. I think they were interested in each other and there was something there but I don't think it ever would have ended well, as it clearly didn't for Stephen and Charlie either. But Dan and Phil do prove the opposite end of that spectrum, having almost the same age and life experience difference but still working out just fine.

It does hit the same squick a little yeah. I guess at least Dan was 18 and out of school (so with his mind more on the future) when they met, but combined with Dan being a fan.. let's say that if I had been Dan's friend at the time I would've strongly advised against it. I guess Dan and Phil do fall under the exceptions, that they did find an emotional connection behind all the superficial shit like listening to Muse and playing Final Fantasy. And that that ultimately made them work (and still work) against all odds. It doesn't change my views on those type of age gaps though. And I also fully admit to hypocrisy; because I ship it and because I know it ended up in a healthy relationship, I tend to view the start of their relationship in a more favorable light than I usually would. Reading Charlie's old tweets (from when he was still close to Phil to the 2012 bully era) also gives me far more unhealthy obsessive vibes than Dan ever did, and I can't imagine a relationship like that ever being healthy even if there hadn't been an age gap. It just disturbs me.

So on the age difference, would people see it differently if Dan had been a girl? If Phil had been a girl? If both had?

Seems to me that sexism/heteronormativity would suggest that an 18-year-old girl and a 22-year-old boy would be just fine (and would shudder at the reverse). Supposedly the age gap gets made up by the girl being "more mature" yada yada, but I would personally side-eye that harder than an 18-year-old boy and a 22-year-old boy.

Regardless, the age difference is a bit squicky at 22/18, but I'm guessing not so for most people by the time it gets to 24/20 or so.

I know that data suggest that people tend to most naturally match up with people close to their own age, but of course there is plenty of variability and age difference is only one of many factors.

I hope not. Like I mentioned in a previous post the reason I'm so sensitive about high school/uni age gaps is because of my best friend who was in a super toxic relationship like that. She was 16/17, he was 22/23. And I still remember her always telling me that they worked so well because he told her she was more mature than ~other girls~ of her age and that she couldn't imagine dating someone younger like I was at the time (a shocking 10 month difference). And even when it was over, it literally took her years so come to terms with how fucked up it actually was and what the impact it made on her and how she viewed and behaved in relationships now. I also remember defending my friend when my mom asked about 'that weird guy' she had seen her with using the same ~maturity~ excuse and my mum outright said that that was manipulative bullshit that older boys just said to make their 'prey' feel special.

I actually think people are the most uncaring about age gaps between older girls and younger boys.. I guess because they always assume the power is with the male anyway which is a whole different level of fucked up thinking in it's own right.

[lost686girl]

It's definitely plausible that in relationship experience they might've been on par, but a high schooler mostly thinks and pretends they're equal to their uni age significant other imo. In life experience and things like that they're (supposed to be) worlds apart. Plus it usually comes with an unhealthy imbalance in power. I think that often people in relationships like these think they're super equal because they both like the same things. The younger person thinks they're super mature for that, the older person thinks they have interests that aren't very mature at all and that that will make it difficult to date in their age range. In reality plenty (if not most) people from age 14 to 25 like a lot of the same stuff in terms of movies, books and games so none of that actually makes for a good romantic match. Especially not with an age difference.

Do you think the year that Dan had on Charlie made a big difference? Or does early Dan/Phil still hit the same squick with you? I fully understand why the idea of Phil and Charlie having a romantic connection upsets some people, and don't disagree with your reasoning. I think they were interested in each other and there was something there but I don't think it ever would have ended well, as it clearly didn't for Stephen and Charlie either. But Dan and Phil do prove the opposite end of that spectrum, having almost the same age and life experience difference but still working out just fine.

It does hit the same squick a little yeah. I guess at least Dan was 18 and out of school (so with his mind more on the future) when they met, but combined with Dan being a fan.. let's say that if I had been Dan's friend at the time I would've strongly advised against it. I guess Dan and Phil do fall under the exceptions, that they did find an emotional connection behind all the superficial shit like listening to Muse and playing Final Fantasy. And that that ultimately made them work (and still work) against all odds. It doesn't change my views on those type of age gaps though. And I also fully admit to hypocrisy; because I ship it and because I know it ended up in a healthy relationship, I tend to view the start of their relationship in a more favorable light than I usually would. Reading Charlie's old tweets (from when he was still close to Phil to the 2012 bully era) also gives me far more unhealthy obsessive vibes than Dan ever did, and I can't imagine a relationship like that ever being healthy even if there hadn't been an age gap. It just disturbs me.

So on the age difference, would people see it differently if Dan had been a girl? If Phil had been a girl? If both had?

Seems to me that sexism/heteronormativity would suggest that an 18-year-old girl and a 22-year-old boy would be just fine (and would shudder at the reverse). Supposedly the age gap gets made up by the girl being "more mature" yada yada, but I would personally side-eye that harder than an 18-year-old boy and a 22-year-old boy.

Regardless, the age difference is a bit squicky at 22/18, but I'm guessing not so for most people by the time it gets to 24/20 or so.

I know that data suggest that people tend to most naturally match up with people close to their own age, but of course there is plenty of variability and age difference is only one of many factors.

in america most people are 18 when they start college, and leave at 23. so an 18 year old (freshman) dating a senior is totally possible. college is when you gain your autonomy, and age isn't as important as it used to be in high school

also when they met phil wasn't a celebrity, his "fans" were more like his peers.(into youtube, nerdy shit) yeah, now with a million plus subscribers i'd think it unwise to date a fan, but back then it made sense

[secretagentphan]

http://danismydaddy.tumblr.com/post/156 ... dle-in-the
(Link to a tumblr post I hope I did it right but probably not) have you guys seen this post? Can anyone verify if that's really Dan's candle? It looks like it to me honestly but my phan goggles are so tight they're cutting off the circulation to my brain. Those boys are making me so pleasantly confused

[captainspacecoat]

A relationship between people of any genders with an age gap of 22/16 definitely makes me feel uncomfortable, despite potential legality. However, I really don't think Phil and Charlie were ever in anything close to a relationship. They may have been kind of flirty on social media, but the fact that they only met up once suggests to me that it never went anywhere. There's no concrete evidence that they ever did anything sexual/romantic (Charlie has given conflicting information at different points, but I'm pretty sure I also remember him clarifying that they never dated?).

If anything, from an objective standpoint (and again, this is pure speculation so I may be completely on the wrong track) I would guess that Phil may have been the one to reject Charlie and clarify to him that he didn't want to be a relationship with him. Just based on the fact that they only met up once and then never again, and Charlie seemed to be pretty infatuated with Phil based on social media interactions (and he continued to be for years really), I would have thought that he would ideally have kept up a relationship with Phil and that makes me think Phil maybe did set him straight. Idk, I could be wrong, but I really don't get the vibe that Phil ever took advantage of Charlie.

I don't personally get the same vibes from Dan and Phil as they were not only of a legal age in terms of consent, but Dan was also legally an adult (18) and I think that does make a difference. That, coupled with the fact that they seemed to be at similar levels of maturity, means that I view it differently than I would if he was underage.

secretagentphan I'm pretty sure that's Phil's black 'Fairytale of New York' candle he showed in a liveshow, Dan has a similar one but it's white

Edit: or maybe it is the wax one? either way, i don't really see how it means anything

[alittledizzy]

http://danismydaddy.tumblr.com/post/156 ... dle-in-the
(Link to a tumblr post I hope I did it right but probably not) have you guys seen this post? Can anyone verify if that's really Dan's candle? It looks like it to me honestly but my phan goggles are so tight they're cutting off the circulation to my brain. Those boys are making me so pleasantly confused

I assumed it was Phil's Fairytale of New York candle.

(oops, captainspacecoat beat me!)

Charlie stuff under the spoiler:

A relationship between people of any genders with an age gap of 22/16 definitely makes me feel uncomfortable, despite potential legality. However, I really don't think Phil and Charlie were ever in anything close to a relationship. They may have been kind of flirty on social media, but the fact that they only met up once suggests to me that it never went anywhere. There's no concrete evidence that they ever did anything sexual/romantic (Charlie has given conflicting information at different points, but I'm pretty sure I also remember him clarifying that they never dated?).

If anything, from an objective standpoint (and again, this is pure speculation so I may be completely on the wrong track) I would guess that Phil may have been the one to reject Charlie and clarify to him that he didn't want to be a relationship with him. Just based on the fact that they only met up once and then never again, and Charlie seemed to be pretty infatuated with Phil based on social media interactions (and he continued to be for years really), I would have thought that he would ideally have kept up a relationship with Phil and that makes me think Phil maybe did set him straight. Idk, I could be wrong, but I really don't get the vibe that Phil ever took advantage of Charlie.

I don't personally get the same vibes from Dan and Phil as they were not only of a legal age in terms of consent, but Dan was also legally an adult (18) and I think that does make a difference. That, coupled with the fact that they seemed to be at similar levels of maturity, means that I view it differently than I would if he was underage.

We covered the denial thing earlier in this same conversation - he never gave conflicting info, he said they dated but that they weren't in a relationship.

Charlie and Phil's flirtation tapered off when Charlie started dating Stephen. Charlie seemed equally as flirtatious with Stephen (more so, really) than Phil all along so that gives me the impression that Charlie just ended up picking Stephen, more than Phil made any direct choice one way or the other. Kind of easy to view the flirtation as over when the other person gets a boyfriend. But within the month that happened Phil started talking to Dan so I don't think he was exactly broken-hearted.

[secretagentphan]

@captianspacegoat and @alittledizzy oops sorry! I'm not well versed in Dan and Phil's candles if I'm being real, I don't usually watch the liveshows #fakephan

[captainspacecoat]

@captianspacegoat and @alittledizzy oops sorry! I'm not well versed in Dan and Phil's candles if I'm being real, I don't usually watch the liveshows #fakephan

Don't worry!!! If anything I think it's worrying that I'm SO well versed in their candles haha, I need to do something more productive with my life tbh (don't mind me i just wanted an excuse to use this emoji cos it's so cute)

[CallMeAyana]

...I know that the psychic thing is probably inaccurate, but I don't like Phil's reading about February.

[oqua]

...I know that the psychic thing is probably inaccurate, but I don't like Phil's reading about February.

Why not?