Dan & Phil Part 98: forever home!!1!!!

[LadyLackless]

The American in me is laughing at Cornelia saying that the UK's 2 months of paid leave is "really bad"

Kinda ot but

In Sweden you get (if I'm remembering correctly) 16 months per child for the parents to share, of which 3 months has to be taken out by the non birthing parent. The leave can be used up to the child turns 12, so some use parental leave to work part time for a while before going back full time.

It's not full pay, I think it's 70-80% but yeah, 2 months is nothing. Like is your body even remotely recovered at that point? And where are you leaving a 2 month old baby that is probably still breastfed?!

Further ot discussion

Poking my head out of retirement to say that it’s not 100% accurate to say that we only get 2 months of paid leave here in the UK. Minimally you will get 2 months of full pay, but after that you get a further 7 months of ‘statutory’ pay - which OK, is not great, but £450-£500 a month is better than nothing. In addition you get child benefit of (from memory) about £80-£100 a month if you are a lower band taxpayer, and the employer is obliged to hold your job for you to come back. And some employers are more generous and will provide over the statutory minimum amount.

Having said all that, the EU definitely have it a lot better, and she is right about pre-schools/nurseries in London, but it’s not quite as awful as she’s making out

[kavat]

Further ot discussion

Poking my head out of retirement to say that it’s not 100% accurate to say that we only get 2 months of paid leave here in the UK. Minimally you will get 2 months of full pay, but after that you get a further 7 months of ‘statutory’ pay - which OK, is not great, but £450-£500 a month is better than nothing. In addition you get child benefit of (from memory) about £80-£100 a month if you are a lower band taxpayer, and the employer is obliged to hold your job for you to come back. And some employers are more generous and will provide over the statutory minimum amount.

Having said all that, the EU definitely have it a lot better, and she is right about pre-schools/nurseries in London, but it’s not quite as awful as she’s making out

Sweden is known as one of the most generous countries in the world when it comes to parental leave, and public daycare is free, so of course that is going to skew her (and mine) perspective a bit. It is a Swedish newspaper and the UK system is not well known here so it's a valid point to bring up I think. Many swedes take our system for granted so it's good to be reminded that we have it good in terms of rights for parents and children (of course there are still problems but in the great scheme of things, we are very lucky to have this system).

I think around 30% of all parental leave days are used by dads here which is absolutely not enough but a lot better than many countries and promotes equality both within families and in the work force in a way that I think is really healthy. This article is a few years old but brings up the differences between Sweden and the UK from a dads perspective.

[alittledizzy]

Further ot discussion

Poking my head out of retirement to say that it’s not 100% accurate to say that we only get 2 months of paid leave here in the UK. Minimally you will get 2 months of full pay, but after that you get a further 7 months of ‘statutory’ pay - which OK, is not great, but £450-£500 a month is better than nothing. In addition you get child benefit of (from memory) about £80-£100 a month if you are a lower band taxpayer, and the employer is obliged to hold your job for you to come back. And some employers are more generous and will provide over the statutory minimum amount.

Having said all that, the EU definitely have it a lot better, and she is right about pre-schools/nurseries in London, but it’s not quite as awful as she’s making out

Sweden is known as one of the most generous countries in the world when it comes to parental leave, and public daycare is free, so of course that is going to skew her (and mine) perspective a bit. It is a Swedish newspaper and the UK system is not well known here so it's a valid point to bring up I think. Many swedes take our system for granted so it's good to be reminded that we have it good in terms of rights for parents and children (of course there are still problems but in the great scheme of things, we are very lucky to have this system).

I think around 30% of all parental leave days are used by dads here which is absolutely not enough but a lot better than many countries and promotes equality both within families and in the work force in a way that I think is really healthy. This article is a few years old but brings up the differences between Sweden and the UK from a dads perspective.

*stares in american*

[Levitating]

If I understand correctly, Phil's family lives in the Isle of Man, right?
Well, more good news for them!

Covid-19: Isle of Man ends second lockdown

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-eur ... n-55894179

[alittledizzy]

Mod Post

Sorry to interrupt this Dan and Phil adjacent treasure trove of conversation, but if you will join us over in About This Forum, we wanna have a little chat about IDB and money... don't worry, it won't hurt. (Much.)

[rizzo]

[Megancita75]

That was delightful. Honestly, if they just wanted to post stories of them laughing about anything with no context, I would not complain.

[glitterintheair]

Those ig stories gave me a serotonin boost that was very much needed.

[inanerat]

Both of them, but especially Dan are like 'I don't do anything interesting, I don't go anywhere, I don't have anything to post on insta stories' and I'm like, look, BUB

this less than 30sec video cutting open a cupcake with some giggling in the background is premium fucking content. it has provided me with sustenance for the entire rest of my day.

[LAshleigh]

Both of them, but especially Dan are like 'I don't do anything interesting, I don't go anywhere, I don't have anything to post on insta stories' and I'm like, look, BUB

this less than 30sec video cutting open a cupcake with some giggling in the background is premium fucking content. it has provided me with sustenance for the entire rest of my day.

It's so true. Listened to it a few times and now I'm motivated enough to walk the dogs. Especially as someone who is home alone a lot, all I need is to hear people I like laughing and my depression gets, like, cut in half.

[Levitating]

Same. All you, really. Same.

My heart!

I love they 'casual' voices and how they make each other laugh.

Youtube provides us with examples of what was supposed to happen, with the pinata cake.
https://youtu.be/tkSr4ZxnYOo?t=450

[laurenbacall]

that's the only thing that's made me smile in days

i can just imagine how pumped phil was about this cupcake too... bless him

[oriharakaoru]

AW PHIL! And he donated £340, that's so cute! It pushed us over £4000 total.

wat omg i love him

[oriharakaoru]

The Golden Family "Our Freja is a miracle" [paywall]

What do you do?
- I started as an event manager in my partner's company, IRL Digital Ltd, and am now a brand manager and work with marketing, entertainment and merchandise that is not just fast fashion.

that is such an a+ fancy description for youtuber merch i'm dying

i guess confirmation that IRL fully employs martyn and cornelia, eh?

god, i'd love to know how much profit IRL makes in year. fascinating.

[Levitating]

Not so great. [...] the prices are so high, it is cheaper with daycare [..]. Then you can have a nanny but it is not for people with regular incomes.

I also wonder if this piece means that she considers herself to be receiving "regular income", meaning she does not consider herself to be at a higher social position than most?
Their house seems "normal" size (though I bet they own it) for a middle class family in London.

IRL is not going so well though. of the ones they manage, I only know Carrie and DnP - and Dean, but does he still make good views?

[shan]

Since I personally have never seen anything about their income, my assumption has always been that they make an average or slightly better than average income. Definitely not rolling in it the same way dnp are since they aren't massive content creators. My best guess would be that they make a pretty decent salary through IRL with a little bit on the side from the very occasional gig.

I also don't know much about IRL's finances as a company or about the running of a merch store in general but, while I wouldn't say business is booming, I would think they'd be doing ok. They always sell out of one or two items from each dnp collection the day of release and have to do a restock. As long as they aren't consistently massively over-producing items, I don't think they'd be in danger. This seems doubly unlikely after Cornelia's comment about fast fashion in the newspaper article and the way they seem to be sticking with other small businesses. I could be completely wrong through and the business is actually ready to fold, if anyone has the inside deets feel free to correct me!!

[alittledizzy]

Dan wished a fan a happy birthday and it's making me feel all warm and fuzzy toward him.

Since I personally have never seen anything about their income, my assumption has always been that they make an average or slightly better than average income. Definitely not rolling in it the same way dnp are since they aren't massive content creators. My best guess would be that they make a pretty decent salary through IRL with a little bit on the side from the very occasional gig.

I also don't know much about IRL's finances as a company or about the running of a merch store in general but, while I wouldn't say business is booming, I would think they'd be doing ok. They always sell out of one or two items from each dnp collection the day of release and have to do a restock. As long as they aren't consistently massively over-producing items, I don't think they'd be in danger. This seems doubly unlikely after Cornelia's comment about fast fashion in the newspaper article and the way they seem to be sticking with other small businesses. I could be completely wrong through and the business is actually ready to fold, if anyone has the inside deets feel free to correct me!!

Company finances in the UK are public; this obviously doesn't tell us how much Martyn and Cornelia individually make, or how much any of their employees are paid, or what their overhead currently is. Also I think filings for last year are all wonky so it doesn't even tell us how they've done in the past two years - but! We know that from May 2018 to May 2019 their current assets were £1,354,621 and net assets/total equity was £1,136,093. Someone who knows more about businesses and money can dissect that.

Martyn is also a legitimate one-third owner in the company equal to Dan and Phil, so my guess would be that he and Cornelia don't make the same thing off of it.

[shan]

Company finances in the UK are public; this obviously doesn't tell us how much Martyn and Cornelia individually make, or how much any of their employees are paid, or what their overhead currently is. Also I think filings for last year are all wonky so it doesn't even tell us how they've done in the past two years - but! We know that from May 2018 to May 2019 their current assets were £1,354,621 and net assets/total equity was £1,136,093. Someone who knows more about businesses and money can dissect that.

Martyn is also a legitimate one-third owner in the company equal to Dan and Phil, so my guess would be that he and Cornelia don't make the same thing off of it.

Thanks! I really have no idea what that means in the grand scheme of things so definitely if someone has some insight I'd be very interested.

Likewise I don't really know much about the financial aspect of being a part-owner of a company. My knowledge on these sorts of things mostly comes from trashy reality shows trying to help failing businesses. So basically, owner/co-owner = in debt if shiz goes down. Is there a paycheck taken home or is it more of a stake in the company thing that becomes relevant if it's sold?

[liola]

I have always been of the opinion that Martyn gives himself a "salary" and obviously Cornelia is employed so she does receive one. I don't actually think Dan and Phil actually take any profit of IRL for their own personal finances, the smart thing in that sense would be to reinvest it in the company itself and pay off production, bills, and obviously their employees. Their roles is vastly different than Martyn who is obviously hands on with the company. From the files at least it doesn't look like they took any money from the company, but filing system is also a bit different from the one i'm used to.

I would be so curious to know more about IRL. I have always thought they should branch out to more clients and maybe try with other kind of internet creators rathen than just youtubers (podcasters, artists etc) but I do also believe they might have branched out already and just not advertised it because it's more "normal" clients rathen than internet personalities. At least that's what I hope cause even with the sales of dnp merch it wouldn't seem like a sustainable business model otherwise.

It's just.. so fascinating to me. Why don't they have a business podcast, god the wasted potential

Company finances in the UK are public; this obviously doesn't tell us how much Martyn and Cornelia individually make, or how much any of their employees are paid, or what their overhead currently is. Also I think filings for last year are all wonky so it doesn't even tell us how they've done in the past two years - but! We know that from May 2018 to May 2019 their current assets were £1,354,621 and net assets/total equity was £1,136,093. Someone who knows more about businesses and money can dissect that.

Martyn is also a legitimate one-third owner in the company equal to Dan and Phil, so my guess would be that he and Cornelia don't make the same thing off of it.

Thanks! I really have no idea what that means in the grand scheme of things so definitely if someone has some insight I'd be very interested.

Likewise I don't really know much about the financial aspect of being a part-owner of a company. My knowledge on these sorts of things mostly comes from trashy reality shows trying to help failing businesses. So basically, owner/co-owner = in debt if shiz goes down. Is there a paycheck taken home or is it more of a stake in the company thing that becomes relevant if it's sold?

It really depends on their agreement. Generaly speaking, directors of an LTD company are not considered employees so they do not have a contract and a regulated monthly salary (at least from what I remember). They can agree on a "draw" from the company profit, which I'm assuming that is what Martyn does and I don't think DnP do, unless the company is vastly more successful than I actually think it is.

An LTD is a limited liability company and is a good model because if the company goes in debt then their personal finances are basically not dragged down, they are only liable up to whatever their capital in the company is. They don't have shares that go out in the market for outside investors to buy if that's what you're asking.

[shan]

Generaly speaking, directors of an LTD company are not considered employees so they do not have a contract and a regulated monthly salary (at least from what I remember). They can agree on a "draw" from the company profit, which I'm assuming that is what Martyn does and I don't think DnP do, unless the company is vastly more successful than I actually think it is.

Interesting, thanks for the insight! This is kind of like what I was imagining, I guess DnP would also be taking home the profits of their own merch so it makes sense for Martyn to be taking home the company profit if it isn't an exorbitant amount. Especially since DnP aren't exactly desperate for money.

I wonder if the reason they don't have more clients is to do with the quality of the merch they sell. They seem to go to great lengths to ensure they're selling good quality, ethically sourced products for prices that are pretty much on par with other YouTuber merch I've seen. I'm not sure if it's always been this way, just something I've noticed on the packaging/tags of recent merch from Phil. Surely these suppliers would cost more than your typical fast fashion/knick knack maker, cutting into the profit. Might be a hard sell to a lot of people when they could potentially be making a higher profit elsewhere? Again, just a thought, no idea if this is in anyway true.

[inanerat]

I have a random ask, if anyone has an answer for me:

Does anyone remember what video it is that Dan says 'WELCOME TO HELL' in a sort of mildly demonic voice?? I feel like it's from a gaming video and it's been stuck in my head for several weeks and I haven't managed to find it.

Anyway please continue with srsbns discussion

[Templeofshame]

I would be so curious to know more about IRL. I have always thought they should branch out to more clients and maybe try with other kind of internet creators rathen than just youtubers (podcasters, artists etc) but I do also believe they might have branched out already and just not advertised it because it's more "normal" clients rathen than internet personalities.

It seems to me like all the wording on their website ("brands," "artists," "clients") is designed for broader outreach, but they haven't really gotten traction with non-YouTubers, at least not yet. (I thought Cyarin wasn't a YouTuber, but I guess she has one vid in the last 3 years, so...?)

[liola]

I would be so curious to know more about IRL. I have always thought they should branch out to more clients and maybe try with other kind of internet creators rathen than just youtubers (podcasters, artists etc) but I do also believe they might have branched out already and just not advertised it because it's more "normal" clients rathen than internet personalities.

It seems to me like all the wording on their website ("brands," "artists," "clients") is designed for broader outreach, but they haven't really gotten traction with non-YouTubers, at least not yet. (I thought Cyarin wasn't a YouTuber, but I guess she has one vid in the last 3 years, so...?)

Yeah, although I'm mostly talking with the assumption they might have clients who just don't want to be advertised on the website, or are not "big names" for the internet persoalities they might want to reach. It's not that uncommon to have clients who don't want to be put on display tbh (although i'm mostly thinking about "normal" business industry)

I don't know how they can sustain staying in business with such few clients, not with the number of people they at least had? I'm fascinated

[plinthofmylife]

I don't know how they can sustain staying in business with such few clients, not with the number of people they at least had? I'm fascinated

To me their business model seems quite clear, "they can't stay in business" unless they get more clients is not a concern. They are an e-commerce site that doesn't have marketing overhead since the marketing is done by the creators, they could be just for DNP alone and still support a small staff- especially if some staff are just casual staff for events/cons, which I suspect they are.

Usually 1 million in rev with 50% profit margins (rough industry standard) after COGS + overhead would be about 500K in profit. 500K GPB would be enough to pay a reasonable salary to 4 staff (especially if some are not full year) and 3 co-owners owner draw even after taxes. Remember it's the UK, so the #2 cost for US small employers (health care) is rolled into taxes which for that size company are similar to a US company (depending on what kind of tax magic they're doing).

Essentially, your local coffee shop might very well turn a similar profit (with lower revenue because the margins on coffee are huge) and employs about as many people.

ETA: sorry I always get unreasonable excited to talk business on here as creator/biz owner, but omg I desperately want them to have a business podcast.

[liola]

I don't know how they can sustain staying in business with such few clients, not with the number of people they at least had? I'm fascinated

To me their business model seems quite clear, "they can't stay in business" unless they get more clients is not a concern. They are an e-commerce site that doesn't have marketing overhead since the marketing is done by the creators, they could be just for DNP alone and still support a small staff- especially if some staff are just casual staff for events/cons, which I suspect they are.

Usually 1 million in rev with 50% profit margins (rough industry standard) after COGS + overhead would be about 500K in profit. 500K GPB would be enough to pay a reasonable salary to 4 staff (especially if some are not full year) and 3 co-owners owner draw even after taxes. Remember it's the UK, so the #2 cost for US small employers (health care) is rolled into taxes which for that size company are similar to a US company (depending on what kind of tax magic they're doing).

Essentially, your local coffee shop might very well turn a similar profit (with lower revenue because the margins on coffee are huge) and employs about as many people.

ETA: sorry I always get unreasonable excited to talk business on here as creator/biz owner, but omg I desperately want them to have a business podcast.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but I'm not sure I completely agree either. Their business model is indeed clear but I also wouldn't classify IRL as strictly an e-commerce , (more an agency) considering their clients are the creators/artist and not the consumer - which is why you're right that the marketing is done by the creators. In that sense having few clients, who then might not have as big of a reach (i'm excluding dnp here) doesn't seem like a sustainable business model for a company that's been around more than 5 years.

And yeah a local coffee shop might indeed have similar profit but that also means it's at risk of failure if there's a bad month incoming. They seem to have at least 5 people employeed, plus operational costs etc. I'm not saying they're one bad step away from bankrupcy but it also doesn't seem like an absolutely stable thing to completely base their revenue on just one/two clients and not focus on finding more. At least a coffee shop has a customer return rate that is higher in that sense with a more common use product

I do remember a couple of years ago they seemed to be pointing towards marketing themselves more to find more creators, but again it doesn't look like it worked unless those creators don't want to be advertised, which could absolutely be because their website is.. lacking in information in that aspect.

(I'm also always incredibly into talking business especially with you lmao why can't they give us that sweet business talk please. )