Dan & Phil Part 46: Some kind of a gay backstory

[echinodon]

Nanalew's statements re same sex marriage really don't bother me, I thought what she said would be worse than that. While I understand the sentiments expressed by others here (I'm torn in some ways to agree) I personally do not see her opinions to be very harmful (especially in a society where ssm is legal/generally accepted). Regardless, people will react/respond (i.e. not watching her videos) to her in a way that they personally see fit (bar hate/intolerance hopefully ) . Which I think is entirely fair.

Also, hello everyone

[uglyamerican]

first of all, i loved the video. already watched it 2.5 times and i'll probably watch it again after posting this. i somehow feel starved for content even though there was a joint video just a few days ago.

the video made me laugh multiple times but i just can't get over how freckly dan is looking! i love it. he should get out in the sun more often. also those curls. the curlier the better in my opinion. he looks great and i should hope so after a nice long vacation.

maybe i'm just being a demon but did anyone else think there was something in the tone that dan said 'friend' at like 4:54? i probably am just projecting but

also i love that the probing comment went so...uncommented on. i feel like that would've been a big deal if it weren't may 2017.

Okay, but here is my question: Did Phil just not have an issue because of his bants with the bald TSA officer, or was it because in addition to his entertainer's visa he also had a tourist visa, since he was already planning on staying for two weeks with his family? Because if we go just based on what Dan said in the video then technically Phil would need to leave the country and re-enter like Dan. Dan is kinda saying he just didn't get caught... which could perhaps become an issue when leaving? I'm guessing though that Phil had both and Dan just didn't find that info necessary to the video, but it might be something explained in a liveshow... That or his TSA agent went along with Phil's projected stay time and everything looks right on paper, so no problem. Okay, actually that makes the most sense and doesn't contradict the video. Should have gone with the bald guy Danny, though I don't like to think of Phil getting stuck with that lady and having to go through a similar ordeal.

so in the last week and a half i've travelled between the us, uk, italy, and spain so i've got a bit of experience (and in the past) of travelling between countries. and basically, i think that it really doesn't matter. phil got let through maybe out of luck and i think that if dan hadn't gone to the bahamas....nothing would have happened. i think the us has bigger fish to fry than dan staying in the country longer than his professional visa says it allows, i don't really think they'd have been like 'dan howell is still in the country...we need to get him out'. and i don't think he'd have any trouble leaving the country on his intended day of leaving. they don't check your visas when you're leaving the country or getting on a flight. they check that your passport matches you and the name on your boarding pass and that's about it. and getting into the uk wouldn't have been a problem either. the border patrol agent probably had to tell him to do this out of protocol but in all reality, if he'd have stayed and left when he intended to without re-entering the country, he'd have been fine.

now, this makes me kind of think that he did it on purpose. i think maybe, when told this, he realized it probably wasn't something that he had to do but something that would make a good video. so he did it.

i could be totally wrong but those are just my thoughts as someone who's travelled in and out of the us multiple times. i understand that getting into the us is more difficult than in other countries but i'm pretty sure that they wouldn't have hunted him down had he stayed past the three days without going to the bahamas and that when he leaves they won't really care or even try to find out how long he's been there for.

anyone else want to weigh in on this? obviously my experience can't be totally compared because i've never travelled in and out of the us as a citizen of a different country.

In Florida he probably would have been OK, but out West, there are interior border checkpoints that could potentially fyu (although it's really not a big deal, but they *could* detain and immediately deport you if you have no passport / return ticket / money, or expired visa.) I had some Swedish friends who overstayed, and were caught at one of these control stations. Nothing happened to them since they had passports, money, and return tickets. But it was probably noted in their "permanent" record.


Anyway, I loved this video - it's one of my favorite Dan genres.

[LtrllySusan]

Speaking of the Bahama vid again... Has anyone noticed how Dan hasn't change a single social media link in his old video descriptions? At least the few I randomly checked...

[fleur-de-lis]

Okay, but here is my question: Did Phil just not have an issue because of his bants with the bald TSA officer, or was it because in addition to his entertainer's visa he also had a tourist visa, since he was already planning on staying for two weeks with his family? Because if we go just based on what Dan said in the video then technically Phil would need to leave the country and re-enter like Dan. Dan is kinda saying he just didn't get caught... which could perhaps become an issue when leaving? I'm guessing though that Phil had both and Dan just didn't find that info necessary to the video, but it might be something explained in a liveshow... That or his TSA agent went along with Phil's projected stay time and everything looks right on paper, so no problem. Okay, actually that makes the most sense and doesn't contradict the video. Should have gone with the bald guy Danny, though I don't like to think of Phil getting stuck with that lady and having to go through a similar ordeal.

so in the last week and a half i've travelled between the us, uk, italy, and spain so i've got a bit of experience (and in the past) of travelling between countries. and basically, i think that it really doesn't matter. phil got let through maybe out of luck and i think that if dan hadn't gone to the bahamas....nothing would have happened. i think the us has bigger fish to fry than dan staying in the country longer than his professional visa says it allows, i don't really think they'd have been like 'dan howell is still in the country...we need to get him out'. and i don't think he'd have any trouble leaving the country on his intended day of leaving. they don't check your visas when you're leaving the country or getting on a flight. they check that your passport matches you and the name on your boarding pass and that's about it. and getting into the uk wouldn't have been a problem either. the border patrol agent probably had to tell him to do this out of protocol but in all reality, if he'd have stayed and left when he intended to without re-entering the country, he'd have been fine.

now, this makes me kind of think that he did it on purpose. i think maybe, when told this, he realized it probably wasn't something that he had to do but something that would make a good video. so he did it.

i could be totally wrong but those are just my thoughts as someone who's travelled in and out of the us multiple times. i understand that getting into the us is more difficult than in other countries but i'm pretty sure that they wouldn't have hunted him down had he stayed past the three days without going to the bahamas and that when he leaves they won't really care or even try to find out how long he's been there for.

anyone else want to weigh in on this? obviously my experience can't be totally compared because i've never travelled in and out of the us as a citizen of a different country.

In Florida he probably would have been OK, but out West, there are interior border checkpoints that could potentially fyu (although it's really not a big deal, but they *could* detain and immediately deport you if you have no passport / return ticket / money, or expired visa.) I had some Swedish friends who overstayed, and were caught at one of these control stations. Nothing happened to them since they had passports, money, and return tickets. But it was probably noted in their "permanent" record.

Well Phil got lucky. As a UK resident, he doesn't need to apply for a tourist visa, you just get it when you enter the country. If Dan would have entered the US as a tourist, he wouldn't have had a problem either. They entered on a professional visa though and it's therefore in the border officer's hands how long he extends it for. Phil's border agent didn't see a problem with him staying for a few weeks while Dan's was extra-nitpicky and since he only applied for one for three days, he only got that. She could've easily just extended it.
Since you can't 'switch' visas while in the country, you need to cross the border and come back on a tourist visa. I've done the same in Canada - just drove over the border and drove back. Incredibly stupid but they have those rules.

If Dan would've just overstayed, he could be denied to enter the country next time he wants to travel to the US. They are pretty strict with that. They once forgot to take my three months tourist visa out of my passport at the border and when I tried to re-enter a few weeks after it expired, they questioned me for an hour before they let me in again because i 'could have been an illegal resident'. So he did the right thing to be safe.

[Birdie]

The new collab: I read about her homophobia before I had time to watch the video and now I've lost all interest in it. I guess I'll skip that one. I'm absolutely not okay with her mindset, I think it's the most toxic kind of ignorance you can display actually. "I'll let you do it but I won't agree with it" is just so passive aggressive and dangerous actually. What she's basically saying is that she hates us and she thinks we're going to hell or whatever but she won't attack us over it. I don't know about her but most people with that kind of mindset expect brownie points for it. "I hate you but I'm not going to hurt you over it, isn't that great of me?"

Her attitude is really scary to me actually, scarier than outright homophobia, because it's so easy to excuse and say "At least she's not hurting anybody!" when in fact she is hurting people because the message she's passing on is that gay marriage is wrong and she's just tolerating that it's happening because she's such a good person. I think if she truly believed what she says she would just not talk about it because she'd realise her opinion doesn't matter. Like, if you really think gay marriage should be legal even though you personally don't agree with it, you wouldn't be vocal about not agreeing with it, would you? I'm not sure if I'm coherent right now but people like this scare me.

I don't like her opinion, but isn't tolerance the stepping stone to acceptance? First comes tolerance, then comes normalization and acceptance.

Here tolerance is the norm. There are some social issues and a few legal ones, but it's also very safe and there's very little strong opposition. The older generations tolerate it even if they don't like it, and each generation is becoming more and more accepting. I've never felt unsafe or that these tolerant people were "dangerous".

I wish that was true but I don’t think so. It’s not just old people, there’s a whole new generation of conservative homophobic young people on the rise all over Europe and America. What I find dangerous about “tolerant” people like Shawna is how ugly they could get if the tables turned again and they'd find themselves part of a majority again. Gnosia has said everything I feel about this situation very very beautifully so I’m not going to repeat what they already said but I think the safety of lgbtq people is a bit of an illusion.

There are still so many hate crimes and micro aggressions happening and Shawnas vocal disagreement with gay marriage is a micro aggression alright. Like I said, if she truly believed it should be legal even though she doesn’t like it, she wouldn’t keep saying how she doesn’t like it on social media. People like her are the people who would be genuinely happy if gay marriage got banned again and that’s not tolerance in my book, that’s pretending to tolerate something because it makes you look like a good person. At least that’s what I think.

Thanks for your posts, Gnosia & Dizzy!

She is sending mixed signals tho because I read some of the youtube comments and there's one where she states that she likes the yuri on ice ost. Anyways it is so weird to me to see that in 2017 there is a youtuber that thinks marriage is only between a man and a woman.

You would be surprised (or maybe not) by how many people just don't want to pick up on YOI's obvious subtext. I've seen people on Tumblr angrily discuss whether Victor and Yuuri were really a couple. People are really good at ignoring the parts of a show they don't like until they're convinced it's not even really in the show. I kind of hope they'll talk about YOI in the next video, I want to see if she's like that or if maybe saying she liked the music was a copout so she didn't have to say she didn't like the show. We'll see.

[Catallena]

Shawna is a real gem. Digging deeper into ha Twitter learns that she was 'a Never Hillary' but 'not a big fan of Trump either' so indirect Trump voter is most likely something we can add to the list of reasons why she ain't shit (she should apply for a job at DeFranco's new 'news network' they'd get along so well) and I'm pretty sure she was in favor of the muslim ban so we can add racism and Islamophobia to that as well. This girl seems to be a Christmas gift that just keeps giving except no one wanted this second hand dollar store crap.

She is sending mixed signals tho because I read some of the youtube comments and there's one where she states that she likes the yuri on ice ost. Anyways it is so weird to me to see that in 2017 there is a youtuber that thinks marriage is only between a man and a woman.

You would be surprised (or maybe not) by how many people just don't want to pick up on YOI's obvious subtext. I've seen people on Tumblr angrily discuss whether Victor and Yuuri were really a couple. People are really good at ignoring the parts of a show they don't like until they're convinced it's not even really in the show. I kind of hope they'll talk about YOI in the next video, I want to see if she's like that or if maybe saying she liked the music was a copout so she didn't have to say she didn't like the show. We'll see.

Plus lots of homophobic girls are still fujoshi who just want to fetishize gay relationships (but only malexmale ones of course) so it wouldn't surprise me if she does actually consume anime like Yuri On Ice without a second thought. They want their anime characters to have sex but the minute an actual real life same sex couple asks for basic human rights they turn around and spout homophobic bullshit. Because same sex couples are only allowed to exist for their own entertainment.

And with real people ships like in kpop fandoms or even the phandom sometimes (especially back in 2012-13) you have the added factor of 'If I don't have a chance with my male fave no other girl should either so I'll live in the fantasy of him fucking my other male fave because while I hate gay people at least it won't be a girl'

Pretty sure my life span shortened by a year everytime I saw that statistical graph saying People Who Are Allowed To Marry Dan with 50% saying Me and the other 50% saying Phil. Barf.

[captainspacecoat]

Ugh, how disappointing

I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt re: the askfm answer as it could be interpreted as her trying to convince the asker to come around and support same-sex marriage, but those tweets: nah m8. Gnosia your post was really beautiful (you're a wonderful writer! v articulate and eloquent, I always enjoy reading your posts) and said everything much better than I could.

It's a shame as well, because I really appreciate that Phil sometimes collabs with people who have smaller subscriber counts than him, and it would have been nice to be able to genuinely enjoy watching a video with him and someone he gets along well with/feels comfortable with (that's not Dan). I wish I was better able to compartmentalise these things, but unfortunately I'm the sort of stubborn asshole who can not separate a person from their politics, hence I'm probably not gonna bother with the video.

I will say though that I hope people aren't attacking her too harshly - as much as I vehemently disagree with her position, I hate confrontation so much and selfishly hope it all fizzles away so that the liveshow tomorrow (today in the UK I guess?) is relatively drama-free.

[lurker]

not much to add to the discussion, but i stopped by to say that i've enjoyed reading different opinions on the matter in a non-heated way. it's perfectly fine to be upset by shawna's statements, but it's also fine if someone is able to compartmentalize and enjoy the video apart from it.

personally, reading about shawna's "opinions" has upset me and i don't think i'll be able to watch the second installment, which is a shame because originally, the video was such a pleasant surprise and i liked the idea of phil collabing with other "old" youtubers. btw people have been discussing if he's compartmentalizing (that's where i learnt this word from, cool. am i using it right?), but i also think it's possible that he wasn't aware of it because the ~topic never came up~, idk.
tl;dr, i'm uncomfortable, angry, and not looking forward to the next ap video.

i do hope that both phil and shawna are aware of the backlash that has happened, but i also hope that phil's ls won't get spammed with comments about it as i don't really expect him to actually comment on that -- which is fine imo, but i also wouldn't be happy to get a "ahh check out my new vid with this cool person" tonight. (which is probably gonna happen, isn't it?)

[onetruetrash]

I'm kinda surprised Dan and Phil are friends with her. I mean, homophobic, Trump supporter, and someone said she supported the Muslim ban, so she's racist and Islamphobic too. I hope they do mention YOI. She might be one of those people who fetishize gay couples.

[SquishPhan]

Yeah it was really disappointing learning about Shawna’s views.
I’m still going to watch part 2 and her collab on Phil’s channel, but I am certainly not going to subscribe to her or even watch any other vids by her.

[plath]

Shawna is a real gem. Digging deeper into ha Twitter learns that she was 'a Never Hillary' but 'not a big fan of Trump either' so indirect Trump voter is most likely something we can add to the list of reasons why she ain't shit (she should apply for a job at DeFranco's new 'news network' they'd get along so well) and I'm pretty sure she was in favor of the muslim ban so we can add racism and Islamophobia to that as well. This girl seems to be a Christmas gift that just keeps giving except no one wanted this second hand dollar store crap.

You would be surprised (or maybe not) by how many people just don't want to pick up on YOI's obvious subtext. I've seen people on Tumblr angrily discuss whether Victor and Yuuri were really a couple. People are really good at ignoring the parts of a show they don't like until they're convinced it's not even really in the show. I kind of hope they'll talk about YOI in the next video, I want to see if she's like that or if maybe saying she liked the music was a copout so she didn't have to say she didn't like the show. We'll see.

Plus lots of homophobic girls are still fujoshi who just want to fetishize gay relationships (but only malexmale ones of course) so it wouldn't surprise me if she does actually consume anime like Yuri On Ice without a second thought. They want their anime characters to have sex but the minute an actual real life same sex couple asks for basic human rights they turn around and spout homophobic bullshit. Because same sex couples are only allowed to exist for their own entertainment.

And with real people ships like in kpop fandoms or even the phandom sometimes (especially back in 2012-13) you have the added factor of 'If I don't have a chance with my male fave no other girl should either so I'll live in the fantasy of him fucking my other male fave because while I hate gay people at least it won't be a girl'

Pretty sure my life span shortened by a year everytime I saw that statistical graph saying People Who Are Allowed To Marry Dan with 50% saying Me and the other 50% saying Phil. Barf.

Totally agree with all of this. As a lesbian, she can go get fucked. And so can the homophobic straight girls in fandoms who fetishize m/m relationships.

It's up to Phil to choose his collaborators, but I do wish he'd picked a different person. Didn't it come up in the political discussion a while ago that Phil was a Conservative and that Dan didn't talk politics with him? I seem to remember reading that. I mean UK conservatives are typically more liberal than North American conservatives (a Conservative government recently legalised gay marriage) I doubt that he agrees with all her views but he might find them more understandable than a hardcore liberal leftie might.

Anyway this whole discussion and the one previously are kinda stressing me out. D+P are my escape from homophobia and abelism and all that other real life bullshit. I'm really looking forward to the liveshow. It'll be good to have other nicer stuff to talk about here.

[daichii]

I don't see Phil interacting with her as something so rare, if the topic ever came up between them and she said she is "tolerant" in a convincing way then someone so polite wouldn't stop talking to her. But tbh I don't think their friendship goes beyond anime talk.

@Catallena Now that you mention it I wouldn't put it past her to be homophobic but still watch anime like YOI to fetishize lgbtq

[onetruetrash]

It's up to Phil to choose his collaborators, but I do wish he'd picked a different person. Didn't it come up in the political discussion a while ago that Phil was a Conservative and that Dan didn't talk politics with him? I seem to remember reading that. I mean UK conservatives are typically more liberal than North American conservatives (a Conservative government recently legalised gay marriage) I doubt that he agrees with all her views but he might find them more understandable than a hardcore liberal leftie might.

A while back, someone, I think it was jaej, said they once had Charlieskies as a friend on Facebook and someone asked Charlie why he voted Conservative and he said he only did it because Phil did. But I think they also said that that conversation took place in 2010, so who knows about now?

[Catallena]

Shawna is a real gem. Digging deeper into ha Twitter learns that she was 'a Never Hillary' but 'not a big fan of Trump either' so indirect Trump voter is most likely something we can add to the list of reasons why she ain't shit (she should apply for a job at DeFranco's new 'news network' they'd get along so well) and I'm pretty sure she was in favor of the muslim ban so we can add racism and Islamophobia to that as well. This girl seems to be a Christmas gift that just keeps giving except no one wanted this second hand dollar store crap.

You would be surprised (or maybe not) by how many people just don't want to pick up on YOI's obvious subtext. I've seen people on Tumblr angrily discuss whether Victor and Yuuri were really a couple. People are really good at ignoring the parts of a show they don't like until they're convinced it's not even really in the show. I kind of hope they'll talk about YOI in the next video, I want to see if she's like that or if maybe saying she liked the music was a copout so she didn't have to say she didn't like the show. We'll see.

Plus lots of homophobic girls are still fujoshi who just want to fetishize gay relationships (but only malexmale ones of course) so it wouldn't surprise me if she does actually consume anime like Yuri On Ice without a second thought. They want their anime characters to have sex but the minute an actual real life same sex couple asks for basic human rights they turn around and spout homophobic bullshit. Because same sex couples are only allowed to exist for their own entertainment.

And with real people ships like in kpop fandoms or even the phandom sometimes (especially back in 2012-13) you have the added factor of 'If I don't have a chance with my male fave no other girl should either so I'll live in the fantasy of him fucking my other male fave because while I hate gay people at least it won't be a girl'

Pretty sure my life span shortened by a year everytime I saw that statistical graph saying People Who Are Allowed To Marry Dan with 50% saying Me and the other 50% saying Phil. Barf.

Totally agree with all of this. As a lesbian, she can go get fucked. And so can the homophobic straight girls in fandoms who fetishize m/m relationships.

It's up to Phil to choose his collaborators, but I do wish he'd picked a different person. Didn't it come up in the political discussion a while ago that Phil was a Conservative and that Dan didn't talk politics with him? I seem to remember reading that. I mean UK conservatives are typically more liberal than North American conservatives (a Conservative government recently legalised gay marriage) I doubt that he agrees with all her views but he might find them more understandable than a hardcore liberal leftie might.

Anyway this whole discussion and the one previously are kinda stressing me out. D+P are my escape from homophobia and abelism and all that other real life bullshit. I'm really looking forward to the liveshow. It'll be good to have other nicer stuff to talk about here.

I think we know that Phil has probably voted Tory in the past yeah, but I definitely think his views have changed as he has gotten older and hopefully informed himself more. Pretty sure Dan and him do talk politics in private and agree with each other. We have discussed in the past how Phil's family seems to be quite traditional (like about gender roles and possibly sexuality and such) so it wouldn't at all surprise me if they were Conservative and Phil was raised in that environment and like so many uninformed young people just voted what he knew his parents would vote for.

[nephilimcat]

I'm kinda surprised Dan and Phil are friends with her.

I assume they aren't friends but colleagues that are friendly with each other. Since it's YouTube and creators call each other friends during collabs, they did that as well. Well who knows, maybe they are friends. Why Phil chose to collab with her could have a lot of reasons, from not really being aware of her political views over not wanting to start drama by turning down an offer to collab to the possibility that he is one of those people who are able to hang out with someone who has problematic opinions.
Tbh, my friends aren't aware of a lot of stuff because they are straight, white cis girls that don't spend as much time on the Internet as I do (I'm not saying I'm aware of everything and never say anything problematic, it's just that I realise things are problematic a lot more than they do). They say ignorant shit, one friend says retarded (which I used to do as well but stopped when I realised it's ableist), another uses a slur for butch lesbians (I don't think she realises it's a slur), etc. I don't call them out because I just want to have a pleasant time hanging out and don't want to start a discussion or fight. I constantly talk about and see all this stuff online that when I hang out with friends I want to forget it for a while and just relax (which doesn't work when they do make comments like that, I try to change the topic, give a minor disagreement that doesn't turn into a discussion or just shut up and die internally).
Dan and Phil might be similar when it comes to this stuff Compartmentalising is apparently the word for it, always nice to learn something new

[captainspacecoat]

A while back, someone, I think it was jaej, said they once had Charlieskies as a friend on Facebook and someone asked Charlie why he voted Conservative and he said he only did it because Phil did. But I think they also said that that conversation took place in 2010, so who knows about now?

That was from 2010, yeah. To be fair, that was seven years ago and Phil's views may very well have changed. It's difficult to say for sure who he votes for, but judging by Martyn and Cornelia's tweets (especially Cornelia), as well as Dan obviously, I'd find it very surprising if he still votes Tory. From what I can gather, M+C (again, Cornelia for sure and Martyn probably based on his tweets and likes from around the November US election) are left-leaning. Dan has made it very obvious that he isn't conservative based on things he's said in live shows, his general social progressiveness and his respect for Owen Jones etc. I find it highly unlikely that Phil's views would differ so drastically from those he is closest to. Of course, it's not impossible that he does hold different political views to the rest of them, but I think it's more likely he used to vote conservative because he was fairly young and not politically aware but has since educated himself and changed his views. It just seems unlikely to me that Dan and Phil wouldn't share the same political values given how passionate Dan seems to be about politics (specifically, the politics of the left), and how deeply Dan also values Phil and his opinions.

Good point lurker, it may well be that he wasn't aware of Shawna's political views - I doubt he closely follows her twitter or reads her askfm, so if the topic never came up he would have no reason to know. Regardless, they've been friends for a long time and like other people have said, sometimes certain friendships are able to withstand vastly differing political ideologies

Edit: catallena beat me to it, whoops!

[jaej]

also with the 2010 election thing, i'd say people voted based on different things (2010 had a lot of influence from the economic crash, 2015/17 had a lot from brexit and immigration) so a lot of people who didnt have particularly strong leanings either way would go tory because a lot of newspapers and stuff said it was the best choice for the economy, not based on a lot of the glaringly horrible tory policies that you cant avoid rn. i'd be surprised if he still thought the same way now that we see him actively interact with people who talk about the (many) faults of the tories, but if at the time he was going on a basis of how his family/peers voted + only paying slight attention to headlines saying the tories were the only party to help economically, its not that shocking.

[ananas]

I have read the conversation here and find the politics aspect really interesting. I have recently watched a lot of anti-sjw videos, which has opened my eyes to a lot of issues. And no, I'm not conservative, I stand kinda in the middle.
I think these political conversations are really important. I enjoyed the collab and she seems nice. I even subscribed to her because I'm an anime nerd. If she is going to be homophobic in her content, maybe I'll unsubscribe then. Even if some people hold different opinions, such as homophobic views, I don't see how ignoring them and not talking with them is going to help.
I think not all conservatives and Trump-supporters are bad..Media painted a horrible picture of Trump during the election, but still he won. Clearly that tells something. Maybe people wanted change. I disagree with Trump's environmental stance 100%, but I truly hope he is going to be a good president.
The islamophobia issue is kinda controversial and difficult subject. I'm from Finland, and Finland has taken a lot of refugees in. At first I thought it was great and I didn't see the issue. But the refugees have committed rapes (Yeah, I know finnish people also rape people). Also here refugees food and accommodation are paid from our tax money. We have free health care and education, so I feel that money could be used for elderly people or education. I myself have nothing against muslims, most of them are good people. However the terrorist attacks in Sweden, Germany, Paris and Manchester do make me scared when there is going to be an attack here.
Sometimes a few rotten apples take away the benefits from the good ones.
I didn't mean to rant, but I felt like the opinions on this conversation were very one-sided. I don't mean to start fights, but maybe open a conversation. My point was, anybody too radical from left or right are bad. Also, I support the lgbt+ community!
If anybody is interested, Finland may get the first gay president in the next election. Pekka Haavisto, who I believe is married to his partner, was really close to winning the previous election. I heard he is running in the next election as well. I probably will vote for him not because he is gay, but because he belongs to the green party

[plath]

I feel like we might be getting off topic a bit...?

I'm so looking forward to Phil's liveshow tonight! I'm really looking forward to hearing about Florida. And how his poor ginger soul's coped with the UK's heatwave over the past few days.

[snokoplasmic]

i basically agree with what a lot of people are saying here: they probably don't talk often enough for him to actually be aware of her political stances

[fondsmiles]

I have read the conversation here and find the politics aspect really interesting. I have recently watched a lot of anti-sjw videos, which has opened my eyes to a lot of issues. And no, I'm not conservative, I stand kinda in the middle.
I think these political conversations are really important. I enjoyed the collab and she seems nice. I even subscribed to her because I'm an anime nerd. If she is going to be homophobic in her content, maybe I'll unsubscribe then. Even if some people hold different opinions, such as homophobic views, I don't see how ignoring them and not talking with them is going to help.
I think not all conservatives and Trump-supporters are bad..Media painted a horrible picture of Trump during the election, but still he won. Clearly that tells something. Maybe people wanted change. I disagree with Trump's environmental stance 100%, but I truly hope he is going to be a good president.
The islamophobia issue is kinda controversial and difficult subject. I'm from Finland, and Finland has taken a lot of refugees in. At first I thought it was great and I didn't see the issue. But the refugees have committed rapes (Yeah, I know finnish people also rape people). Also here refugees food and accommodation are paid from our tax money. We have free health care and education, so I feel that money could be used for elderly people or education. I myself have nothing against muslims, most of them are good people. However the terrorist attacks in Sweden, Germany, Paris and Manchester do make me scared when there is going to be an attack here.
Sometimes a few rotten apples take away the benefits from the good ones.
I didn't mean to rant, but I felt like the opinions on this conversation were very one-sided. I don't mean to start fights, but maybe open a conversation. My point was, anybody too radical from left or right are bad. Also, I support the lgbt+ community!
If anybody is interested, Finland may get the first gay president in the next election. Pekka Haavisto, who I believe is married to his partner, was really close to winning the previous election. I heard he is running in the next election as well. I probably will vote for him not because he is gay, but because he belongs to the green party

I'm gonna put this in spoiler, because I don't want to make the main discussion center around this. But there are a few things that I can't leave uncommented.
I do see your points on being wary about immigration, I understand how you fear that there's danger coming to your country. What sits very uneasy with me though is comments like "sometimes a few rotten apples take away the benefits of the good ones". That is, in my eyes,
a very dangerous sentiment to have. I translate a sentence like this to, you are unsure if allowing (more) immigration is the right thing to do, because you are aware of how some of those immigrants may do violent and horrible things, and you'd rather play it safe and keep everyone out, so that danger stays out too. Again, I can see the logic in that. I understand it comes from a worry about safety. But, here's my issue: Same could be true for people from your country, or from mine. I'll talk about me here, I am sure you can translate. In Germany we do have a very similar political environment in that regard. So, I too could say, rather not have more immigrants, some of them might be bad. But, what if I just say that about Germans?
There's Germans who rape others, who do terrorist attacks, who attack refugee homes or refugees out on the street. Should we... ban our own people from our own country, all of us,
because some of us do bad things? That's no solution, of course.
The thing is with groups: You see outgroups as more homogenous than ingroups. Meaning:
people you perceive as a different group from you (refugees) seem more alike than people from your own group (Fins, or in my case Germans). That is not a bad thing; that is just what it is and the way our brains structure the world. But I believe, it's important we're aware of it. Because,
other groups are just as diverse as we are. And writing off an entire group of people simply because some of them do something, and you project that behaviour of those few people onto the entire group, is dangerous - because other groups can do exactly the same thing about your group.
For example, I could try to put you in a mental group of racist people, because some of those things you say go along with things I know racist people to say. Then again, I know your oppinions don't completely align with everything racist people say, and I am aware of that. I hope you can try to do the same for different groups: Keep in mind that they are not all the same, and it's not fair to treat them like they are.

I put this under a spoiler since this discussion has really moved on from deppy by now. I'm happy to discuss in private messages with anyone interested though, or maybe we should move over to the Sociopolitical discussion thread, I'll be happy to continue talking if someone does want to continue over there!

[LtrllySusan]

Welp I hope no 13-year-old runs off to steal their siblings vape ... tool (IDK what it's called?) to make a funny reply.

[onetruetrash]

So what timezone are deppy in? I don't wanna miss the ls.

[LtrllySusan]

Phil tweeted he was home and he'd go live at 7, which should translate to 8pm CEST aka in 2h from now.

[uglyamerican]

I feel like we might be getting off topic a bit...?

I'm so looking forward to Phil's liveshow tonight! I'm really looking forward to hearing about Florida. And how his poor ginger soul's coped with the UK's heatwave over the past few days.

Now that the new abode has A/C, and they only go outside in Florida, I'd say he's staying cool.