Dan & Phil Part 91: A Decade of Deppy

yellowsubmarine · Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:44 pm

I really really don't want to be mean but how do you take two years developing nail polish? And a candle? I'm not following.

Also his surprise method is clearly not working if it gets everyone worked up for the worse.

So I guess I'm back to being excited for his new project, whenever it comes out. Can't help it.

Birdie · Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:46 pm

You know, I don't really care at this point. Maybe he is working on another big, wonderful project but if each project takes him months to finish, I don't see how this will work out in the long run. And I'm so not down with this weird "It's supposed to be a surprise" thing. Like I said in an earlier post, he knows his fanbase is waiting for him to communicate and yet he goes silent without a word of explanation again and again just to drop "surprises" (and more often explanations for why the planned project/surprise didn't work out yet, lol, how many times has he done that now?). I know this will blow over and people will love him again tomorrow but I'm so tired of his bs.

Don't get me wrong, I like him so much, but the way he's handled his career this year ain't it.

Susanisnotafish · Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:47 pm

The saving grace in all this is that we have finally been blessed with the dandle!

Edited to add: I don’t understand why he didn’t at least do a live show to launch this merch. Such an easy small gesture would have made me feel so much better about his recent behavior.

philliebillie · Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:50 pm

Yeah that blog post seems like damage control to me. I wonder if we'd ever hear the story behind the merch drops if they haven't received any backlash on this last one. He's cute tho, he's really cute. Cornelia always brings it, she's so beautiful. The candle speaks to me, but I'm really not into the text that much.

spaceguitar · Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:50 pm

I’m really glad that he appears to have apologized and communicated a bit. I’m not super cynical about him, I really do think Dan cares a lot, and I’m glad to see that in action again. I agree though that I hope this pattern does not keep repeating itself, because it is so tiring. It leads to situations where it looks like the whole career is a money grab, which is not how I like to think about dnp

Luu · Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:56 pm

HAS HE NOT LEARNED ANYTHING ABOUT SURPRISES??? TATINOF HELLO??? istg this guy is going to give me an aneurysm. He could have prevented all of this with communicating and interacting with us on a regular basis, not just ghosting us until he has something to sell us.

(sorry for screaming and my bad english but I have shit to say and I'm still annoyed)

Megancita75 · Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:58 pm

When all this was brewing yesterday, I did wonder if we might be seeing a plan gone awry, like it was supposed to be two things happening (merch plus something else) but the schedules got misaligned and then for probably business reasons the merch drop had to happen. Anyway, his post seems to confirm that. I was never mad about the merch (just bracing for the fandom reaction) and it's nice to get a long post from him. The fact that he mentions the "penultimate drop" indicates to me that there is some long-term planning going on behind the scenes. I just want to go back to being happy about DnP so I will.

noodlebum · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:01 pm

Hooray for communication! Not so hard

Phantasy · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:07 pm

Amiaw wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:34 pm Does it count as communicating if you only do it when money’s involved and it’s after a lot of people get upset? I guess we have an answer as to why he’s been quiet but it would have been nice to know this before the merch drop.

I don’t see his response as “an answer”—merely the bare minimum to mitigate the swelling backlash.

Working on a project that you secretly hope to drop is not an excuse for lack of communication and engagement. In the run up to BIG that made a lot more sense—he needed and wanted a break, was going through a personal and emotional journey and focusing his energy into that video. But, everything after has just seemed like unnecessary audience dangling and the swell of activity just to coincide with a merch drop is pandering and distasteful no matter how you frame it.

alien · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:07 pm

I only want Dan to share stuff with us if he wants to share stuff with us not because he has something to sell us. That's why personally I was fine with him ghosting us because I don't want him to feel obligated to share about his life unless he wants to. But for him to come back with a pic and a tumblr queue just to turn around and sell us stuff feels really gross to me.

And maybe I'm being unfairly skeptical but a part of me doesn't even believe he had something else planned that just so happened to not work out alongside this merch drop.

plinthofmylife · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:08 pm

Blog post reads as damage control but honest damage control; I'll allow it as I have a lot of empathy. I've made the mistake as a perfectionist creator before - including with my own merch - of not talking about delays. When things are delayed sometimes I make the mistake of not communicating - because in my head I was BUSY and it will ALL BE WORTH IT for my audience once they see what I'm working on.

I had surgery a few months ago, and I thought it wouldn't delay anything, but shipments were delayed for almost 2.5 weeks. I didn't actually communicate anything beyond "everything's fine" and then when people started to ask "hey where is that thing" I had to apologize and say "sorry, I had surgery and am super behind". Everyone was understanding and I should've done it from the outset.

I also made the mistake about 6 months ago of heavily hinting about a series I was doing that ended up having production and release pushed back by a year. Then I had to apologize on like 12 levels WITHOUT throwing my (higher-profile) collaborators and (fickle) funders under the bus for delays. When I could've just kept it under my coat all along and not pissed anyone else, but I wanted to explain why other content had been weaker while we worked on the big scripted series. ALSO I WANT THAT SERIES TO JUST COME OUT BECAUSE I AM PROUD OF IT BUT THINGS BEYOND MY CONTROL ARE HOLDING IT UP I HATE LAWYERS.

Sorry, rant done.

He also said "penultimate collection" and then "last for now" - I'm confused. Penultimate means second-to-last, which led me to believe one more drop and then he's closing shop. But then he said "last for now" which implied he is going to release again once a project is done?

Incidentally, I WISH that long cozy ass hoodie didn't read "my soul" because the messaging is too negative for my audience and me, frankly. Otherwise it looks swank.

Ataraxia25 · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:11 pm

Luu wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:56 pm HAS HE NOT LEARNED ANYTHING ABOUT SURPRISES??? TATINOF HELLO??? istg this guy is going to give me an aneurysm. He could have prevented all of this with communicating and interacting with us on a regular basis, not just ghosting us until he has something to sell us.

(sorry for screaming and my bad english but I have shit to say and I'm still annoyed)

The thing is, dropping project as a surprise works better for him! Because this fandom puts expectations on him and i'm not sure he can deal with it. So that's how he does thing, people should get used to it.
Also the fandom is insufferable when waiting on a project, we know that. I understand Dan for not wanting that and for wanting time away to work on his project alone. He's not going anywhere.

And you say "has he not learned nothing about surprises" but this goes both ways. The fandom should learn about all these expectations put on Dan. He should take a good look at himself and his ways of doing things but WE SHOULD TOO.

Also, people should stop being outright mean to him, the guy has feelings too and can see everything.

Phanshy · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:11 pm

I don't think most people expect a constant stream about what he's working on, we get there's stuff he's doing that he can't talk about because it might not happen or he doesn't want to ruin the full impact by hinting at things but it's the fact he's completely shutting us out of his life that bothers me, why can't he just post a normal selfie he doesn't have to be out somewhere fancy most of us would be ecstatic to get one in front of a white wall, why can't he post about a film he's seen or a album he loves.

I laughed when he said he's been working on the merch for two years as if it's some labour of love he's sweated over non stop, there is nothing in anyway unique or creative about it.

Megancita75 · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:13 pm

Hey plinthofmylife, I love it when you chime in with the perspective of a content creator and details of what that life can be like, both creatively and logistically. I really appreciate your insights, so thanks.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:14 pm

plinthofmylife wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:08 pmHe also said "penultimate collection" and then "last for now" - I'm confused. Penultimate means second-to-last, which led me to believe one more drop and then he's closing shop. But then he said "last for now" which implied he is going to release again once a project is done?

My guess is that he has Christmas merch coming that's already in the works and finalized, but he's not moving forward with things after that unless they're related to a project. So this is the penultimate "Daniel Howell" merch collection relating to himself with nothing else attached, anything more will have more specific branding/theming.

yellowsubmarine · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:17 pm

Phanshy wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:11 pm I don't think most people expect a constant stream about what he's working on, we get there's stuff he's doing that he can't talk about because it might not happen or he doesn't want to ruin the full impact by hinting at things but it's the fact he's completely shutting us out of his life that bothers me, why can't he just post a normal selfie he doesn't have to be out somewhere fancy most of us would be ecstatic to get one in front of a white wall, why can't he post about a film he's seen or a album he loves.

I laughed when he said he's been working on the merch for two years as if it's some labour of love he's sweated over non stop, there is nothing in anyway unique or creative about it.

He doesn't even have to show his face if he doesn't want to. Tweet mundane shit. Give an opinion of the music he's listening to. KEEP YOUR AUDIENCE INTERESTED. AND THEN DROP YOU STUFF.

I support his creative endeavors but not everyone wants merch, some of us can't afford it. Does that mean I don't want to support him in some other way? I want to!! I want his career to succeed but he's gotta give me something else!

Ok this came out very whiny and petty i'm sorry. I'm just feeling very disconnected from Dan and I never thought I would feel that way. I've loved his content for so long.

bevioletsky · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:17 pm

A project, huh. I was sure that he was working on something while somewhat skeptical of any theories of a Big Project, but would you look at that. Whatever it may be, I’m excited. ‘I hope to share more of myself and good news with you all soon’ sounds particularly good to me. I hope that too, Dan.

I don’t really blame him for the lack of teasers or information about the project specifically, because that has a history of not going down well for him either... at the same time I do think his complete silence has been pretty bad as well, like I feel like he could’ve kept some kind of an online presence instead of going fully radio silent. The schedule not working must be well shit for him though.

Oh and of course he had to go and release a candle. Literally the only merch I could’ve or have ever cared about (I really love my Phil one. It smells great).

parallel · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:19 pm

Meh. He could've waited until after dropping his project to drop the merch, but I suppose I could understand that.

Until he actually releases the project, I'm not going to get hyped over a vague hypothetical future project. I can't say that the Tumblr post has changed how I feel, but it is nice to at least get some communication from him.

Also, you spent 2 years working on a dress hoodie, a black candle, and black nail polish? I mean, I've never made clothes, candles, or nail polish so idk, maybe it does take 2 years, but I wouldn't have expected it to take that long, that's for sure.

I definitely need to take a step back from Dan for now, though. I'll still be on IDB but I think I'll stop rewatching old Dan (and joint) content and focus on Phil, because I am just a bit tired of Dan right now. I hope he does release his project and that the project will be worth the wait, and I also hope I can get back into Dan's content with the release of the new project, but for now I'll be on an unofficial Dan Break.

Neons · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:19 pm

I get the impression from those of you who are long-time fans that Dan is an exhausting person to be a fan of sometimes, lol.

It's weird because BIG was what got me into D&P but I feel like I've kind of lost interest in Dan now that he's made it obvious he doesn't want to connect with fans unless there's money involved. Not to mention the pandering and patronising.

Oh well. As others have said, Phil has been conducting himself brilliantly lately in pretty much every regard. (And he'd get a free pass from me forever anyway since he was so lovely to me at Discover Dogs.

)

I will still be curious about Dan's mysterious project if it ever does see the light of day.

stufflizloves · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:21 pm

(i don’t know why i feel like i need to apologize for not picking up my pitchfork but i do: you are allowed to be in your feelings about this! i am not the negativity police! but i do think sometimes when the same point gets made over and over on a forum, people think that’s the consensus & i just feel the need to speak up a little bit. again, not finger wagging.)

i’m glad for communication—i think it shows Growth for Dan. he could have just dumped and run, but he saw wank and addressed it as honestly as he could. i do think there’s more going on behind the scenes & in the works. i believe Dan when he says that.

i am EXCITED for ~mystery~ project. (and already a lil anxious about phandom building it up but literally what are you going to do??)

anyway. didn’t buy merch. not mad about it. shrugs!

Megancita75 · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:23 pm

Phanshy wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:11 pm
I laughed when he said he's been working on the merch for two years as if it's some labour of love he's sweated over non stop, there is nothing in anyway unique or creative about it.

I would be interested to learn more about their merchandising process -- I do think it's very plausible that it could take 2 years from product conception to launch, and that might also involve whatever merch is part of this upcoming last product release. I read an interesting post on Tumblr a while back from someone in merchandising who said that the fact that some of Phil's products used actual embroidery (versus I guess a print?) indicated a really high attention to detail and product sourcing.

Birdie · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:29 pm

I'll be here cheering once that project finally drops as well but at the same time I'm just so fed up. It took him two years to design a candle, some nail polish and a shirt? Okay? And I'm also sceptical about how his schedules keep not working out. I can understand that happening with BIG but BIG wasn't the first time that happened and this time will probably not be the last time as well. I don't wanna be too negative about that right now because who knows what's going on with him and why it didn't work out in time. All I'm saying is it's not a good look for a professional creator when he can't make his schedules work out again and again.

I thought plinthofmylife's post was super interesting and I've done the same due to life stuff happening. Getting people hyped up and then realising you can't make the thing work is ugly for everyone involved so I do feel for Dan but at the same time I think he's at a whole different level than smaller creators and it really shouldn't happen so much when you have a whole team around you but like I said, I don't know what caused the delay and I don't really wanna judge without knowing more.

But I'm still so done at the moment so I'm basically in the same place as parallel.

EDIT: fixed plinth's username, sorry!

Susanisnotafish · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:36 pm

Megancita75 wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:23 pm
Phanshy wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:11 pm
I laughed when he said he's been working on the merch for two years as if it's some labour of love he's sweated over non stop, there is nothing in anyway unique or creative about it.
I would be interested to learn more about their merchandising process -- I do think it's very plausible that it could take 2 years from product conception to launch, and that might also involve whatever merch is part of this upcoming last product release. I read an interesting post on Tumblr a while back from someone in merchandising who said that the fact that some of Phil's products used actual embroidery (versus I guess a print?) indicated a really high attention to detail and product sourcing.

Shane Dawson did his palette and a bunch of accessories in less than a year, while also documenting the entire process and sharing it as content. I expect as much from Dan.

autumnhearth · Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:51 pm

I think he handled that really well and I respect him for it.

Oh and this is a genuinely cute interaction.

firsttimeposter · Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:00 pm

While definitely checking up on dnp everyday, I have been focusing on a lot of other things in my life recently, and I did not expect logging onto this site today and reading such negativity. It’s exciting merch and an exciting ‘announcement’ and honestly... perhaps I’ve just been watching for too long, but I can’t really see myself getting too annoyed at dan. He’s experiencing life just as we are, perhaps his days are moving too fast and decisions are moving too slowly. I don’t know, and I’m sad to see dan obviously responding to negativity he’s seen around in these past couple of days.

He obviously hasn’t been working on this specifically in two years, every day sitting down making decisions, but sometimes processes take a little longer, thoughts stay thoughts though it seems you’re working them over in your head. Who knows. But I’m glad he’s happy w it as always, and I honestly can’t seem to have a single negative thought about dan rn. Except that I miss him.

I would never buy merchandise, and have never been a fan of his nor Phil’s, but I’m sad to see these life-updating newsletters coming to an end for now. I can’t even think of one idea for what his new project is. But yay! Dan! Love him. Hope this is a drop of positivity for all those who can’t seem to frown too much. Not that I can’t understand the frustrations.

(edited to add nice pumpkin)