Dan & Phil Part 50: Should we kiss now?

[rizzo]

[offtopic]Merch related

So I ordered the dark galaxy backpack over the weekend and this beauty arrived! Now do I complain that it's not what I ordered, sell it on eBay for mega money or enjoy being the only one who's got one of these until it's eventual release date!

For those wondering the tags inside and on the strap say dan and Phil, and the paper tag is the blossom tag. Also it says Black Galaxy backpack on the delivery note!

[/offtopic]

Iiinteresting. Is that glitter or is it printed on? If it's printed on I'd seriously consider buying that as my way to contribute to their corgi fund...except the writing. I could pretty easily cover it with a patch or something, though. I'm not sure if you're very lucky or very unfortunately haha

I was about to say, I really like it aside from the writing... which will always continue to bother me. But actually, the patch thing is a great idea and I may consider it when this is released.

That said... Rachel, congrats! That's the best Dan and Phil slip-up ever tbh. Hold on to that backpack for memory's sake, knowing you're the first to ever have it. (Or the only, if they pull back the release.) Too cool! Hope they respond to you on twitter, because this is legit hilarious..

[xaephan]

It's a rough glitter fabric, very much so! It's not exactly the most understated of items let's put it that way haha
Also I'm waiting for updated Phan to tweet it, holy shit will I get an angry Phil DM pray for me

Aww, poop, I wouldn't ever use a glittery bag, so that's out for me. Perhaps they'll have another design that isn't so crazy, though! Currently the only items from their shop I would even consider wear/use outside are their galaxy stuff.

I like how the angry Phil DM is a badge of honor these days. Though I don't think you'll get one of those, it's not like it was you fault at all

Has Dan sent any angry DMs? I'm really curious if he just goes 'nope' and leaves Phil to deal with that stuff.

I was about to say, I really like it aside from the writing... which will always continue to bother me. But actually, the patch thing is a great idea and I may consider it when this is released.

That said... Rachel, congrats! That's the best Dan and Phil slip-up ever tbh. Hold on to that backpack for memory's sake, knowing you're the first to ever have it. (Or the only, if they pull back the release.) Too cool! Hope they respond to you on twitter, because this is legit hilarious..

Same for me, the writing just rubs me the wrong way. I like that it's not so huge so it's uncoverable, at least.

[obscureDnPreference]

I like how the angry Phil DM is a badge of honor these days. Though I don't think you'll get one of those, it's not like it was you fault at all

Has Dan sent any angry DMs? I'm really curious if he just goes 'nope' and leaves Phil to deal with that stuff.

I'm honestly so shocked that Phil is the one that sends angry dms. That just doesn't fit into the sunshine and rainbows personality I think of with him! But those are usually for personal things yeah? This doesn't seem like a situation that would warrant an angry dm. Maybe a "can you delete the tweet?" My guess is it would come from Martyn rather than Phil.

[BuffyFiona]

i do miss the days of simple videos - i miss the gritty cameras and the lack of pressure. production quality is so high and as ben cook said the "digerati" are inescapable.

Yes! I was just talking to my mum about this (who I got into Chameleon Circuit and Tom Milsom's music), who remembers when 2007!Fiona started making her buy Nerdfighter merch and was obsessed with fiveawesomeguys and British vloggers (except not D&P). What I loved best was that it was basically (yes I really am obsessed) folk/punk culture! Sorta. It had that same DIY attitude, and the idea of making stuff just because you want to, and for the other people in your community to interact with, and because you have something to communicate with that community, as opposed to doing it for monetary gain or fame or artistic renown.

Now I feel like most YouTubers are doing it as a job, for it to become a job, or to be recognized as an ~*artist*~. So for me, that cool, gritty, for-the-people-by-the-people, community-based, anti-establishment, DIY atmosphere is largely gone. (Not that I'm not very happy for people being able to make a living off of it! That's awesome!)

Just, once there was an influx of money coming in, the whole atmosphere changed, because suddenly the successful YTers could afford nice cameras, lighting, sets, editing software, hired help, etc. etc., and also could afford to spend more time on every video once they were able to quit their day jobs. They also became more concerned with increasing views and subs, regularizing their content schedules, etc., in order for it to remain a viable career option for them. Which I totally don't blame them for, it just makes sense once your livelihood relies on it!

And once you're competing for views, which equal money, well then you get capitalism, which isn't necessarily bad, but definitely completely changes the landscape. But for those couple of golden years, it was a unique space all its own, free from many of the factors which control commercial entertainment. Now it's sorta gone from being a space for subcultures to grow and thrive, to a pretty mainstream source of entertainment. Obviously it's still unique, and very cool in its own right, especially now that YTers have more resources to create cool stuff. But, basically what I'm saying in this long essay is, I too miss the gritty cameras and lack of pressure of the Good Old Days.

[xaephan]

I like how the angry Phil DM is a badge of honor these days. Though I don't think you'll get one of those, it's not like it was you fault at all

Has Dan sent any angry DMs? I'm really curious if he just goes 'nope' and leaves Phil to deal with that stuff.

I'm honestly so shocked that Phil is the one that sends angry dms. That just doesn't fit into the sunshine and rainbows personality I think of with him! But those are usually for personal things yeah? This doesn't seem like a situation that would warrant an angry dm. Maybe a "can you delete the tweet?" My guess is it would come from Martyn rather than Phil.

I thought that too at first, when I first fell into the dnp rabbit hole. The more I learn about them and their history, though, the more I realize that out of the two them, Phil is clearly the better business person and the one who's kind of the spokesperson for them when it comes to difficult situations. I don't remember who said this or where, but the gist of it: Phil is the one who took a hobby on a site in its infancy and made it into a successful job. Phil took a Christmas special radio opportunity and turned it into a regular gig on the freakin' BBC (and it was even an offer to just him at first!). Phil turned a #spon from crunchyroll into a sponsorship for an international tour.

Of course Dan probably had loads to do with these things as well (except arguably the first) and it's really their partnership that allowed all these things to happen, but I feel like the driving force with the 'I want this, so I'm going to make it happen' is definitely Phil. Part of this is also my extrapolation on their behaviour/what we see of their personalities, where I feel that Dan tends to waffle more and Phil is the more decisive one.

This dichotomy between Phil's strictly on-screen persona and how their business works behind scenes is always so fascinating to me, I could read a billion words about other people's thoughts about it.

(That said, I've never actually see an angry Phil DM in the flesh/screenshot. I'm v curious)

[obscureDnPreference]

I thought that too at first, when I first fell into the dnp rabbit hole. The more I learn about them and their history, though, the more I realize that out of the two them, Phil is clearly the better business person and the one who's kind of the spokesperson for them when it comes to difficult situations. I don't remember who said this or where, but the gist of it: Phil is the one who took a hobby on a site in its infancy and made it into a successful job. Phil took a Christmas special radio opportunity and turned it into a regular gig on the freakin' BBC (and it was even an offer to just him at first!). Phil turned a #spon from crunchyroll into a sponsorship for an international tour.

Of course Dan probably had loads to do with these things as well (except arguably the first) and it's really their partnership that allowed all these things to happen, but I feel like the driving force with the 'I want this, so I'm going to make it happen' is definitely Phil. Part of this is also my extrapolation on their behaviour/what we see of their personalities, where I feel that Dan tends to waffle more and Phil is the more decisive one.

This dichotomy between Phil's strictly on-screen persona and how their business works behind scenes is always so fascinating to me, I could read a billion words about other people's thoughts about it.

(That said, I've never actually see an angry Phil DM in the flesh/screenshot. I'm v curious)

That honestly explains it so well. I sometimes forget that they have to be savvy business people in addition to their youtube life. That's how yt is now, but I just forget about it sometimes because it wasn't like that when I began consuming content. And you're spot-on about Dan waffling and Phil staying on message.

And on the topic of seeing a angry DM from Phil, no screenshots have been shared around? Are these dms like the Loch Ness monster? Always talked about but never seen?

[RachelPhan]

[offtopic]so further to the unreleased merch, the Phandom got hold of the tweet (so many notifications rip my battery) and I'm now receiving messages complaining that I shouldn't have posted it, so now my anxiety has kicked in and I'm off to have a little cry[/offtopic]

[alittledizzy]

[offtopic]so further to the unreleased merch, the Phandom got hold of the tweet (so many notifications rip my battery) and I'm now receiving messages complaining that I shouldn't have posted it, so now my anxiety has kicked in and I'm off to have a little cry[/offtopic]

Don't let them get to you. You received something cool, you shared it. It's not on you that they sent something out early, and it's also - just merch, tbh. It's really cool merch but it was going to be released eventually either way, it's not some top secret time sensitive project of theirs you leaked.

[BSV]

[offtopic]so further to the unreleased merch, the Phandom got hold of the tweet (so many notifications rip my battery) and I'm now receiving messages complaining that I shouldn't have posted it, so now my anxiety has kicked in and I'm off to have a little cry[/offtopic]

Aww Rachel, I hope you're ok? That sounds really stressful! Just think if the tables were turned you can guarantee that those people would have posted a picture about it too!
You've done nothing wrong at all xx

[interruptfireworks]

I like how the angry Phil DM is a badge of honor these days. Though I don't think you'll get one of those, it's not like it was you fault at all

Has Dan sent any angry DMs? I'm really curious if he just goes 'nope' and leaves Phil to deal with that stuff.

I'm honestly so shocked that Phil is the one that sends angry dms. That just doesn't fit into the sunshine and rainbows personality I think of with him! But those are usually for personal things yeah? This doesn't seem like a situation that would warrant an angry dm. Maybe a "can you delete the tweet?" My guess is it would come from Martyn rather than Phil.

I thought that too at first, when I first fell into the dnp rabbit hole. The more I learn about them and their history, though, the more I realize that out of the two them, Phil is clearly the better business person and the one who's kind of the spokesperson for them when it comes to difficult situations. I don't remember who said this or where, but the gist of it: Phil is the one who took a hobby on a site in its infancy and made it into a successful job. Phil took a Christmas special radio opportunity and turned it into a regular gig on the freakin' BBC (and it was even an offer to just him at first!). Phil turned a #spon from crunchyroll into a sponsorship for an international tour.

Of course Dan probably had loads to do with these things as well (except arguably the first) and it's really their partnership that allowed all these things to happen, but I feel like the driving force with the 'I want this, so I'm going to make it happen' is definitely Phil. Part of this is also my extrapolation on their behaviour/what we see of their personalities, where I feel that Dan tends to waffle more and Phil is the more decisive one.

This dichotomy between Phil's strictly on-screen persona and how their business works behind scenes is always so fascinating to me, I could read a billion words about other people's thoughts about it.

(That said, I've never actually see an angry Phil DM in the flesh/screenshot. I'm v curious)

i've seen 'angry' (i wouldn't call them that but i sure as hell would be a bit startled and maybe even scared if i got one??) phil dm's before but had no screenshots so i did a bit of searching on twitter and this is what i found.:

i'm pretty sure the blurred one's real as some people got a few dm's from phil right before tabinof was released as they got it sent to them early and were posting spoilers which i remember in another one i can't find he said was a bit unfair to everyone else.

[DatCog]

[offtopic]so further to the unreleased merch, the Phandom got hold of the tweet (so many notifications rip my battery) and I'm now receiving messages complaining that I shouldn't have posted it, so now my anxiety has kicked in and I'm off to have a little cry[/offtopic]

Aww Rachel, I hope you're ok? That sounds really stressful! Just think if the tables were turned you can guarantee that those people would have posted a picture about it too!
You've done nothing wrong at all xx

Totally this! Ugh I can't bear the phandom police squad sometimes. Sorry that they've made you feel anxious RachelPhan xxxx

[obscureDnPreference]

(I failed at quoting this pic for whatever reason. Oops)

Phil "Protect the Innocent" Lester.

[pilotlight]

[offtopic]so further to the unreleased merch, the Phandom got hold of the tweet (so many notifications rip my battery) and I'm now receiving messages complaining that I shouldn't have posted it, so now my anxiety has kicked in and I'm off to have a little cry[/offtopic]

Some people will take any opportunity to be sanctimonious and mean, but you really didn't do anything wrong. I know it's much much easier said than done, but try not to take it to heart.

[Vanderlyle]

I thought that too at first, when I first fell into the dnp rabbit hole. The more I learn about them and their history, though, the more I realize that out of the two them, Phil is clearly the better business person and the one who's kind of the spokesperson for them when it comes to difficult situations. I don't remember who said this or where, but the gist of it: Phil is the one who took a hobby on a site in its infancy and made it into a successful job. Phil took a Christmas special radio opportunity and turned it into a regular gig on the freakin' BBC (and it was even an offer to just him at first!). Phil turned a #spon from crunchyroll into a sponsorship for an international tour.

Of course Dan probably had loads to do with these things as well (except arguably the first) and it's really their partnership that allowed all these things to happen, but I feel like the driving force with the 'I want this, so I'm going to make it happen' is definitely Phil.

i don't fully agree here - when did the Radio 1 being offered only to Phil become canon? genuinely curious- that is something i had never heard until the past year or so in all my years of "phandom". i have never seen anything concrete or real beyond speculation to that point. R1 basically wanted their christmas adventure collabs/ the super amazing project for radio which was very much a two-man show.

i also don't think phil would be anywhere he is without dan/ vis versa. they are such a duality - dan needed mentorship and phil needed someone with initiative. phil has said before he would have never left manchester but for dan's encouragement. i don't think phil would have broken 1 mil subscribers, but i also think his content would still be the zany/weird/creative stuff - it's a trade off, sadly.

i do think phil is business savvy, but we also draw on that largely based on all the "take down" notifications and copyright claims he viles re: voldy video. but, it was his property so only he can file a claim? i think? lol i know nothing about that stuff. and we know he DMs when he thinks people go to far. also, phil let dan assume the role of "spokesman" during that voldy crisis (which i think was phil being SUPER clever tbh). we also know dan directed the tabinof trailer and there was some liveshow where phil mentions dan being the better communicator in meetings with publishers. phil has said before that he gets nervous. i see phil as the wise quiet sage who listens to everyone/ assesses situations/ reads a room - and uses that knowledge for advantage. he says in his tour of my brain video that people like to trust him with their secrets, which he never forgets. i think this is very telling. phil is a clever little fox in sunshine's clothing - which i love! it's not fair how the phandom reduces him to a marshmallow factory. the dude knows how to work people.

basically, we don't really know which of them is the "mastermind" - i have just always found it interesting people have assigned this role to phil, primarily because we don't really know the intimacies of how he operates. he is quite the blank slate - it's obvious his persona is not the full extent of him. some people in the british YT community have commented that phil holds dan back, which i find pretty outlandish. they are a team - what one lacks, the other compensates. it's pretty incredible - i just want them both to feel fulfilled and satisfied.

BuffyFiona - yes to everything. omg fiveawesomeguys - so much nostalgia. it felt like you were actually seiwng people live their lives back then - because you were! forever will be in love with WOTO - ugh. RIP
i remember when charlie came out with the "i'm scared" video - i was studying abroad (in the uk!) and i called my friends immediately. change had been happening for years, but for charlie to address how it was affecting him creatively seemed like it should have been headline news at the time

edit:
Rachel they are just jealous bc they wish it happened to them. they would have posted it so fast it would have made your head spin.

[alittledizzy]

when did the Radio 1 being offered only to Phil become canon? genuinely curious- that is something i had never heard until the past year or so in all my years of "phandom". i have never seen anything concrete or real beyond speculation to that point. R1 basically wanted their christmas adventure collabs/ the super amazing project for radio which was very much a two-man show.

It's in TABINOF, page 90! (Not the neatest screencaps, did it in a hurry.)

[SquishPhan]

[offtopic]so further to the unreleased merch, the Phandom got hold of the tweet (so many notifications rip my battery) and I'm now receiving messages complaining that I shouldn't have posted it, so now my anxiety has kicked in and I'm off to have a little cry[/offtopic]

Like a few other people have said already you did nothing wrong, and none of this is your fault (if we can even speak of fault). :therethere:

I thought that too at first, when I first fell into the dnp rabbit hole. The more I learn about them and their history, though, the more I realize that out of the two them, Phil is clearly the better business person and the one who's kind of the spokesperson for them when it comes to difficult situations. I don't remember who said this or where, but the gist of it: Phil is the one who took a hobby on a site in its infancy and made it into a successful job. Phil took a Christmas special radio opportunity and turned it into a regular gig on the freakin' BBC (and it was even an offer to just him at first!). Phil turned a #spon from crunchyroll into a sponsorship for an international tour.

Of course Dan probably had loads to do with these things as well (except arguably the first) and it's really their partnership that allowed all these things to happen, but I feel like the driving force with the 'I want this, so I'm going to make it happen' is definitely Phil.

i don't fully agree here - when did the Radio 1 being offered only to Phil become canon? genuinely curious- that is something i had never heard until the past year or so in all my years of "phandom". i have never seen anything concrete or real beyond speculation to that point. R1 basically wanted their christmas adventure collabs/ the super amazing project for radio which was very much a two-man show.

i also don't think phil would be anywhere he is without dan/ vis versa. they are such a duality - dan needed mentorship and phil needed someone with initiative. phil has said before he would have never left manchester but for dan's encouragement. i don't think phil would have broken 1 mil subscribers, but i also think his content would still be the zany/weird/creative stuff - it's a trade off, sadly.

i do think phil is business savvy, but we also draw on that largely based on all the "take down" notifications and copyright claims he viles re: voldy video. but, it was his property so only he can file a claim? i think? lol i know nothing about that stuff. and we know he DMs when he thinks people go to far. also, phil let dan assume the role of "spokesman" during that voldy crisis (which i think was phil being SUPER clever tbh). we also know dan directed the tabinof trailer and there was some liveshow where phil mentions dan being the better communicator in meetings with publishers. phil has said before that he gets nervous. i see phil as the wise quiet sage who listens to everyone/ assesses situations/ reads a room - and uses that knowledge for advantage. he says in his tour of my brain video that people like to trust him with their secrets, which he never forgets. i think this is very telling. phil is a clever little fox in sunshine's clothing - which i love! it's not fair how the phandom reduces him to a marshmallow factory. the dude knows how to work people.

basically, we don't really know which of them is the "mastermind" - i have just always found it interesting people have assigned this role to phil, primarily because we don't really know the intimacies of how he operates. he is quite the blank slate - it's obvious his persona is not the full extent of him. some people in the british YT community have commented that phil holds dan back, which i find pretty outlandish. they are a team - what one lacks, the other compensates. it's pretty incredible - i just want them both to feel fulfilled and satisfied.

BuffyFiona - yes to everything. omg fiveawesomeguys - so much nostalgia. it felt like you were actually seiwng people live their lives back then - because you were! forever will be in love with WOTO - ugh. RIP
i remember when charlie came out with the "i'm scared" video - i was studying abroad (in the uk!) and i called my friends immediately. change had been happening for years, but for charlie to address how it was affecting him creatively seemed like it should have been headline news at the time

edit:
Rachel they are just jealous bc they wish it happened to them. they would have posted it so fast it would have made your head spin.

Pretty sure the fact that at first only Phil got an offer from Radio 1 is in . Yup Mandy beat me to it with a screenshot to boot.

And I do think that Phil does a bit more of the business stuff or is on top of it more at least. He promotes their merch more than Dan does at least that is how I see. Plus when they were on tour he knew which places hadn’t sold out yet while Dan didn’t seem to know as much.
But like good business partners they trade of, so Phil handles that stuff a bit more and Dan does more of the editing.

[RachelPhan]

Thanks to everyone (won't quote you all lol)

irl store actually dmed me and I apologised profusely for what happened and they were nothing but nice (sending love heart emojis) and a few people sent me love on twitter so that's nice.

Forgot outside of IDB how ferocious the phandom actually is, going to stay here in my lovely lurking bubble!

Wonder how quick the "new merch" video will be pushed out now, as the backpack was packed and ready to go in the warehouse its got to be due for release soon surely?!

Hopefully I'm the subject of frenzied conversations in the IRL office tomorrow am ( a girl can dream lol) and luckily no liveshow from Phil tomorrow haha

Oh well, thanks for all the support though my anxiety attack (and to my lovely sister who has been on the phone for two hours talking me through this! Back to lurking

[jaej]

when did the Radio 1 being offered only to Phil become canon? genuinely curious- that is something i had never heard until the past year or so in all my years of "phandom". i have never seen anything concrete or real beyond speculation to that point. R1 basically wanted their christmas adventure collabs/ the super amazing project for radio which was very much a two-man show.

It's in TABINOF, page 90! (Not the neatest screencaps, did it in a hurry.)

dan was reasonably small as a youtuber in mid 2011, it was the start of 2012 mostly where his sub count really shot up. 2011 was when he was very much still riding the "phil's ambiguous associate" label before really being his own separate thing, and Dan And Phil™ wasn't even quite a big enough thing to want them as a duo more than wanting the more popular one.


re: bag love when the Good And Respectful™ phans passive aggressively gang up on someone in a group to get them to delete something, because theyre too Good And Respectful™ to ever post it also, is there a specific time that the word 'phannies' started being used? i stopped interacting with any areas of the phandom other than here at least 2 years ago and take massive breaks from posting here, and at some point people started calling themselves that and it makes me an unreasonably grumpy old man


also, genuine question, do either of them ever talk about even aspects of recent japanese pop culture that isnt anime, occasional video game things or hentai? if they were even into more films and music and just anything else and a bit less watashi wa otaku desu i'd be less about the whole japhan branding. it'd be cool if they were interested in more and it was less of a 2d (wahey) thing and i'd find the insistence on it less eyeroll worthy if there was even a little more substance to it

[missemma]

[offtopic]so further to the unreleased merch, the Phandom got hold of the tweet (so many notifications rip my battery) and I'm now receiving messages complaining that I shouldn't have posted it, so now my anxiety has kicked in and I'm off to have a little cry[/offtopic]

Don't listen to those people sending messages, you did nothing wrong by tweeting it, how else are they to know they've sent the wrong thing, it's not like you can just text Dan and Phil to tell them plus IRL are terrible replying to emails! The phandom can be pretty mean when they want to, but just ignore it and don't let them get to you

ps. you've got something they've not even released, haha i'd wear that outside as much as possible (but would probably cover the japanese writing because i really don't get why they are obsessed with it).

[iwishiwasacasual]

also, is there a specific time that the word 'phannies' started being used? i stopped interacting with any areas of the phandom other than here at least 2 years ago and take massive breaks from posting here, and at some point people started calling themselves that and it makes me an unreasonably grumpy old man

i've been so curious about this as well, it makes me laugh more than anything but what really gets me is why don't more british people complain about it because 'phannies' means something very different over here. legit the first time i saw someone call themselves 'a demon phannie' i literally spat out my drink.

[BuffyFiona]

2011 was when he was very much still riding the "phil's ambiguous associate" label

This is the best phrase for Dan ever, I audibly snorted

also, is there a specific time that the word 'phannies' started being used?

When I was first getting really interested in the history of "phandom" a few months ago, I was really curious about when the term "demon phannie" or just "demon" started to be used in places where I would typically see "tinhat" used in other fandoms. I really couldn't find out much, so if anyone who has actually been around for a while remembers when this started, please tell me!!!!

I think it's so interesting how the phandom self-polices way more than other fandoms I've been in, it can get really rough (like the people yelling at you RachelPhan, I'm so sorry about all of that!), and people themselves seem like they're apologizing for overanalyzing or reading into things (i.e. "not to be demon but..."). At least from what little I've seen. If anyone has any insight into this please share, I'm very curious!

[lefthandedism]

Re the mysterious merch: the picture (tweet?) seems to have disappeared. Could someone describe what the item is (or relink)?

Re Deppy being in the press: they have been in serious mainline press before (that might be interested in publishing a confirmed relationship). For instance, see this (widely-reviled, though I found it interesting) article (which I think may be somewhere on IDB, but I can't find it here):

http://phantaray.tumblr.com/post/132781 ... nt-see-the

(And sorry, I can't get the "embed" button to work on that tumblr page.)

[fancybum]

what i really wanted to ask you all about all of this is, would you be okay with it?

i mean i'm sure your gut reaction is to say 'yes, i want this more than i currently want oxygen'. but really think about whether you'd be okay with dnp all but confirming their relationship in a documentary you have to pay for. when tatinof and the story of tatinof came out i think their was some discussion about whether it would ethical for them to essentially come out in a video you have to pay for and i was just wondering what is your take on it now?

I personally think they wouldn't be into it because it amounts to literally selling their relationship, and they've always seemed to value a certain level of privacy over money. But as to whether it would be ethical? I know a lot of people weren't impressed with Joey Graceffa coming out in his book and with a music video and all of that because it was all so commercialized or whatever. But it's also his life and he can make money with it in whatever way he wants. If people are interested in something (for whatever reasons) and you can use that to improve your own life in some way (even if other people just perceive it as hardcore selling out), who can really say if it's ethical or not? (Well, clearly lots of people, but that doesn't necessarily make them correct). Self-exploitation in a system built to work against you can be ~empowering (sorry, I can't always take that word seriously), but there will always be backlash to consider. Depending on the person, the backlash, and from within your own community, not even just from outside of it, along with any loss of perceived integrity, will be worth the gain (financial or otherwise). I don't think D&P are people that would value the gain over the backlash (if their joint """coming out'"" was done behind an intentional paywall), especially with all Dan's talk of self-acceptance and being your true self to be happy etc etc., like I don't think he would ever add 'and to get a hefty payday' at the end of any of that. So I don't think it's because coming out for pay in some way is inherently unethical that D&P wouldn't do it, just that it's not their particular style as people. If any of that made sense.

this is an interesting question, iwishiwascasual, and fancybum, you raised some really good points.

I can see that they might not want to first share their relationship in a way where people have to pay for it. and yes, they are probably aware that it would cause backlash and that's not something you specifically seek out.

But, I can also see why it would be something someone would choose.

For deppy, their relationship has been discussed probably since before they met, over and over again. There's speculation everywhere, we on here have threads and compilations and screenshots too, and it comes up again and again in the main thread, and everyone has their assumptions and interpretations.

With a background like that, maybe if you decided you wanted to share a relationship, you would want to do it in a way that does it justice. Meaning, you would want to carefully choose what to show, maybe you would want to explain how everything came about and share the entire journey to make everyone understand why you did things the way you did.

Because, imagine this: They might have been together since 2009, and they told that now, just randomly in a video or whatever way you can think of. There would be backlash too, a lot of it, probably. "You have lied to us" "but what about 2012" "you said [grandma comparison]", people would dig it all up and accuse them of things. Maybe, if you had decided you wanted to share that, you would also like to tell it piece by piece so maybe more people understand why you're only sharing now.

Or maybe, it would just feel like such an important thing after so long that you want to display it in a high quality and beautiful way, because you're excited to share it properly.

Those are just some reasons I could imagine why someone would want to do a bigger production than a simple YouTube video.

And why shouldn't that be paid? There goes a lot of work into such a thing; of course there needs to be something that comes out at the end of it for those who created it. And, they get paid for YouTube videos too, it's just not our specific decision to give them money and you can watch it even without paying.

I just want to provide justification for deciding to share big things like this in a way where people have to pay. You might want it to be yours only, you might want to do it properly, and of course you'll need your efforts to be weighed up.

And I don't think they have an obligation to make their relationship the easiest thing accessible, even if they choose to share it. A fandom still doesn't have the "right" to have free and open access to it; that's not something you can expect from a creator, in my opinion.
Especially since the information will obviously be shared in the fandom and they would probably address it on their own if it was prefaced by a big coming out event. You got the info, if you want the high quality stuff that a lot of work went into, you'll have to pay for that high quality stuff.

All of that being said, I don't think that's a thing deppy would do, because fancybum really pointed out great reasons why they probably wouldn't want to. I just personally find it justifiable if they would want to after all.

I agree with and appreciate all of this in the abstract sense, in a hypothetical scenario where they did decide one day, for whatever reason, they wanted to 'share' their relationship (and its history) in full with their audience. Like yeah, get that production value/cash if it's something they feel that strongly about. But I just never see that day becoming a reality (which I know you weren't saying! I don't know why I want to disagree with a hypothetical, but I just want to). Even if we get to the point where it is Known they're together (either through intentional or unintentional inarguable confirmation), I really can't see them wanting to, or feeling the need to, explain themselves or anything they had done up to that point. They're just so private, if they actually did that one day, I would have to start believing in the Mandela effect because we would have had to travel to a parallel universe to another Dan & Phil that wanted to willingly invite millions of strangers into their personal romantic relationship and all of its details. I mean I'd be first in line for that train, but it's just not happening omg now I'm just thinking about Fringe and Alternate Dan/Phil. Phauxl has a non-died fringe and Danielternate runs a clothing line. This got off-track.. Anyway it's definitely interesting to think about though!

I thought people starting calling specifically shippers 'phannies' (as an insult..? because of how the word sounds to Brit ears..?) but they just embraced it because it was funny and it's just become a thing now? I don't know, that's one ill-informed idea.

[Loafer]

2011 was when he was very much still riding the "phil's ambiguous associate" label

This is the best phrase for Dan ever, I audibly snorted

also, is there a specific time that the word 'phannies' started being used?

When I was first getting really interested in the history of "phandom" a few months ago, I was really curious about when the term "demon phannie" or just "demon" started to be used in places where I would typically see "tinhat" used in other fandoms. I really couldn't find out much, so if anyone who has actually been around for a while remembers when this started, please tell me!!!!

I think it's so interesting how the phandom self-polices way more than other fandoms I've been in, it can get really rough (like the people yelling at you RachelPhan, I'm so sorry about all of that!), and people themselves seem like they're apologizing for overanalyzing or reading into things (i.e. "not to be demon but..."). At least from what little I've seen. If anyone has any insight into this please share, I'm very curious!

Popping in to say that I think the term originated in the Larry fandom. Larry shippers adopted the name Larries, and there were like varying degrees, so Chill Larrie to Dark Larrie and up to Demon Larrie, depending on how much you shipped them/believed they were together. Demon and Dark started of course as insults but the shippers adopted the name anyway. (For those confused, Larry is the ship name for One Direction band mates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson and the fandom is a true disaster zone, please stay safe in deppy land ) so that's where Demon comes from I'm P sure, and Phannie maybe derived because it sounded closer to Demon Larrie than say, demon Phans or something? Also it just sounds funny. Interesting how fandom things like that never stay within the originating fandom, like how "smol" originated in the Johnlock fandom.

[mysterylovescompany]

Re the mysterious merch: the picture (tweet?) seems to have disappeared. Could someone describe what the item is (or relink)?