IDB

Checking tweets @ Dan, I see more requests for communication/content than anything about his nails. Twitter seems on a similar level of eyebrow raising.

I genuinely don't understand what Dan's thinking. I'm trying to consider it from the most open mind possible, because I do think we dogpile on top of Dan very easily in this fandom. But also idgi. If you're not going to interact with your audience, don't mass produce products and market them to that audience?

At the end of the day, I don't think I have it in me to be too emotionally pressed about this either way. I'll be curious to see what the merch is and to see some pics.

everyone has already expressed a lot of my thoughts on dan reappearing only to drop some more merch on us. i rolled my eyes as soon as i saw the ig story. dan... are you actually trying to drive me away. i may also be feeling a little sore because it's halloween aka prime dnp season in years gone by and this year we're getting basically nothing.

(has he specified a time for these kinds of things before? how likely is it he might release some content along with the merch tomorrow? ok i'm def clutching at straws here when i should be bracing for disappointment instead. dan has clearly decided that being an entertainer is overrated and his true purpose in life is marketing black clothing.)

honestly i'm not really angry, just kinda sad. i genuinely miss dan and i miss seeing them together. yet instead of putting energy into dan content (or that holy grail, JOINT CONTENT...) he has chosen to release yet more merch.

knq wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:58 pm I do think we dogpile on top of Dan very easily in this fandom.

I mean, we've got to consider that Dan's a millionaire white man. We don't hold any power over him. We can complain about his merch but that's pretty much it. I would say that, as fans, we're more likely to give Dan the benefit of the doubt in situations because we are personally invested in him.

Idk, I just feel betrayed and disappointed in Dan. I would say that I need a break from the Phandom, but I mean, Phil's done nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned. The thing is, it's hard to be a dedicated fan of Phil without running into anything about Dan, so it's not like I can take a step back from Dan and his antics without simultaneously stepping back from Phil's content (which I have literally no issue with and am enjoying quite a lot).

parallel wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:13 am

knq wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:58 pm I do think we dogpile on top of Dan very easily in this fandom.

I mean, we've got to consider that Dan's a millionaire white man. We don't hold any power over him. We can complain about his merch but that's pretty much it. I would say that, as fans, we're more likely to give Dan the benefit of the doubt in situations because we are personally invested in him.

Idk, I just feel betrayed and disappointed in Dan. I would say that I need a break from the Phandom, but I mean, Phil's done nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned. The thing is, it's hard to be a dedicated fan of Phil without running into anything about Dan, so it's not like I can take a step back from Dan and his antics without simultaneously stepping back from Phil's content (which I have literally no issue with and am enjoying quite a lot).

I am a huge Phil fan and am very ambivalent towards most things Dan Howell, it's easily done if you don't invest too much in their personal lives

People say that dan’s been absent bc he’s been planning the release of his merch, which sure maybe that’s why. BUT phil releases merch and does events and does liveshows and tweets and posts on his story. I know they are two very different creators with two different ways of planning things out and dans is typically to fuck off while he creatively plans what’s going on. All I’m saying is don’t be surprised when people get upset bc it looks like you only return when you want to sell something to them.

I would echo what many have already said. We've been having this circular discussion about the proper ratio of merch to content all year. I've already shared where I stand on that matter (my soon to be trademarked seesaw theory) so instead I want to talk about why this latest merch drop feels worse than the others. It all comes down to the events of the past month(or lack there of). Here's a quick run down: Dan disappeared from social media, he stopped interacting with fans, he continued to produce no content, and then returned only to try and sell us something. His posting of the selfie yesterday, his vaguely relatable tweet today, those were clearly calculated moves to get his audience re-engaged (as they've had nothing to engage with all month) so they would buy his latest black creation.

I genuinely want to know what on earth is going through his head. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but at this point, the cynic in me just can't. He knows fans miss him and his content, and he knows how to manipulate those feelings for monetary gain. Which is what he's doing and that's a crappy way to behave, plain and simple. If he's decided social media isn't for him anymore, that's a decision he's free to make. But he needs to make it. If he's decided to stay off social media on all the non-merch days of the month then he needs to stay off on merch day too. If he's done talking to fans, then be done. Bottom line: be consistent!

And, I forget who said it above, but someone mentioned how this is another example of the two of them monetizing their relationship, and it's true. Dan releasing that Kew Gardens photo after a month of nothing already got the audience excited, but Phil releasing his Kew Gardens photo moments after upped the ante considerably. The timing of these photos wasn't an accident, we know this. Dan and Phil are deliberate creatures who are in constant communication. We know that they know that we're even more engaged as an audience when we get glimpses of their relationship. (We're all suckers for domestic content, myself included) And, at the end of the day, it doesn't feel great to be manipulated.

Someone else talked about Dan needing to work with a PR/business expert, and I think that's a great idea. This current strategy of disappear and then reappear only to sell something isn't going work much longer. He's loosing the goodwill he and Phil have built up over the past decade but pulling stunts like this. Before long, there won't be anyone left following him to see that he's released new merch. Look at what happened to Tyler Oakley.

The annoying thing is plenty of people don’t notice or mind the obvious extra content before the drop, love the merch, understand his troubles etc. I tweeted him to ask for clarity and point out how it looks to some of us, but if he sees it and still isn’t bothered, idk

The smattering of activity (chum in the water) before a merch drop seems a bit too textbook even by Dan’s standards—maybe I’m giving him too much credit (or perhaps being wishful), but I wonder if he’s well aware of the backlash and is having a nice big laugh because he plans to drop a video along with the merch—perhaps a mukbang or some other kind of ~JOint ConTeNT~, knowing damn well most all the criticism would wash away.

Phantasy wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:02 am The smattering of activity (chum in the water) before a merch drop seems a bit too textbook even by Dan’s standards—maybe I’m giving him too much credit (or perhaps being wishful), but I wonder if he’s well aware of the backlash and is having a nice big laugh because he plans to drop a video along with the merch—perhaps a mukbang or some other kind of ~JOint ConTeNT~, knowing damn well most all the criticism would wash away.

I mean I could never see the return of any joint content on dan’s channel ever again based on the type of videos I believe he wants to make on there from now on. I could maybe see a video coming before the end of the year but not one where he mentions that you can buy his merch bc that’s not really his style and was really a good reason for having dnpgames.

Phantasy wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:02 am The smattering of activity (chum in the water) before a merch drop seems a bit too textbook even by Dan’s standards—maybe I’m giving him too much credit (or perhaps being wishful), but I wonder if he’s well aware of the backlash and is having a nice big laugh because he plans to drop a video along with the merch—perhaps a mukbang or some other kind of ~JOint ConTeNT~, knowing damn well most all the criticism would wash away.

I have no hopes in getting a joint video rn, I believe there is a very very small chance that we could get a dinof video soonish but then again - even if he posts a vid tomorrow, for me it doesn't really solve anything. Obviously people would get hyped and some of fans who got upset by the merch drop would quickly forget that they were angry, but it doesn't change the fact that the main issue - which, for me, is the lack of communication - would still exist.

I especially don't like the thing that has been reoccuring in dnp's narratives since, idk, mukbang? Which is the whole "you don't know what's happening in our lives and how much work goes into various projects behind the scenes". Sure, we don't know, but if we have no information then dnp can't expect us to only come up with theories that work in their favour. And I really wouldn't like if Dan actually posted a video soon, being all like "ha! and what? y'all overreacted for no reason because you don't have any idea about anything, ever!". I'm so tired of them being like that. They want their audience to have infinitive trust in them without having to actually do or say anything ever... but trust just doesn't work like this?

Dnp frequently bringing up that we have actually no idea what is happening behind the scenes is especially frustrating because any time somethings happens some people will be like - but I'm absolutely sure that him being quiet means that he's working on somethings big! - or - him being quiet means that he may have some problems in his personal lives, so leave him alone!

I'm not even angry, I'm just astounded by this whole situation. (Also hi, I'm Daria, and I'm new here!)

While I have some scathing comments to make about the Dan merch controversy, I’m going to wait and see what happens tomorrow before I post them. For now, I’m gonna talk about Phil. I had a thought that I wondered if others had: I was wondering if part of the reason Phil changed his hair color was so he would be noticed less in public? There are more guys with brown hair out there than raven black I would imagine. All the better for blending in? Whatever the reason, I hope he doesn’t go back to black.

Susanisnotafish wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:14 am While I have some scathing comments to make about the Dan merch controversy, I’m going to wait and see what happens tomorrow before I post them. For now, I’m gonna talk about Phil. I had a thought that I wondered if others had: I was wondering if part of the reason Phil changed his hair color was so he would be noticed less in public? There are more guys with brown hair out there than raven black I would imagine. All the better for blending in? Whatever the reason, I hope he doesn’t go back to black.

Oh, I thought he wanted to see and enjoy his natural hair colour before he goes grey!

I thought the hair change was because of all the comments left on COTY about his hair lol. Whatever the reason it’s the best decision he’s made since he debuted the quiff and got rid of Fabrice.

Logging in to say, I'm similarly disappointed in Dan. I don't mind merch but I do mind what looks like pure manipulation. For me Dan has always sat on the good side of that spectrum and has always managed to make me feel like he really cared about both his relationship to his audience and the ethics of selling to them. This... does not feel like that. I'm sad, because i didn't want to be disappointed in Dan. The spooky tweet also rubbed me the wrong way (he doesn't want to do anything special for halloween?), though at least it shows he is reading his mentions?
Idk man, but if I stop stanning Dan then I'm out of this fandom again.

Phil hair: I think it's a combination of a metaphor after Phil making the natural hair color joke in his coming out video and also Dan being very complimentary of brown squirrels and how beautiful they are after learning Phil's hair on the weakest link wasn't an accurate representation of its natural color.

Dan drama thoughts: I'm tired.

Hmmmm yeah noo this is not a good business move at all.. merch of what?

Maybe a good thing could be calling it a clothing/accesories line: Dan Apparel or something fancy like that. But not merch.

I know this may be tough to hear since the fandom is so joint content based, but maybe try to separate Dan and Phil as creative people from now on. They already have. It would cause less disappointment that way.

They have different management now too, right? I would consider Dan change his like, right now. Or be more self aware. Idk.

I hope that everyone who is disappointed now also chooses to vote with their wallet and doesn't buy the new merch.

I think Dan is done with YouTube and his fandom, but he's afraid of saying so and will continue to milk his hardcore fans.

And @ the people who say "let him be a fashion designer" – he's really not. This is merchandise, look at his shop name alone. It's cheap Made in China shirts that they buy in bulk to print witty things on them. That's merchandise.

I saw someone on Tumblr saying that Dan has to announce he has moved to get people forgive him and buy his stuff, and honestly I don't think we're far from that happening.

just jumping in to voice a minority opinion:

i think it’s a little unfair to say that them posting selfies on the same day from the same location negates them not wanting to monetize their relationship. they are not wearing each other’s names on t-shirt’s available for purchase and prom posing with merch. they...posted selfies from the same location? from martin’s birthday tea?that was in a beautiful setting and they were both dressed nicely and went outside?

i’m not saying people don’t have a right to be mad. your feelings are valid and i’m glad theres been productive & nuanced discussion. dan hyping merch with no content, knowing how the phandom feels about painted nails and visible skin feels ick. ..i just think the criticism on the selfies being manipulative because “we know they were both there! and they are hyping up their base with their relationship!” are a little unfair.

stufflizloves wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:37 am just jumping in to voice a minority opinion:

i think it’s a little unfair to say that them posting selfies on the same day from the same location negates them not wanting to monetize their relationship. they are not wearing each other’s names on t-shirt’s available for purchase and prom posing with merch. they...posted selfies from the same location? from martin’s birthday tea?that was in a beautiful setting and they were both dressed nicely and went outside?

i’m not saying people don’t have a right to be mad. your feelings are valid and i’m glad theres been productive & nuanced discussion. dan hyping merch with no content, knowing how the phandom feels about painted nails and visible skin feels ick. ..i just think the criticism on the selfies being manipulative because “we know they were both there! and they are hyping up their base with their relationship!” are a little unfair.

I agree about the pictures from the park actually. I think Phil would have posted those anyways. I was talking about the other interactions they’ve had around merch this year especially since they’ve dropped the joint branding. And maybe I was a little too harsh but there is a definite pattern here. There was the behind the scenes for Phil’s spring merch when IRL posted the first joint sighting to their business Instagram and then there was the second IRL post right before vidcon with the space shoot interaction. We also had Dan’s back to school merch drop when he posted the distorted selfie of them on the patio the day he teased that merch and then there was the picture tonight where we just happen to see their reflection right before dan dropped his merch announcement.

If I want to give them the benefit of the doubt maybe the 4-5 times they’ve done this have been a coincidence but when they’ve shared so little with us this year it doesn’t feel good that most of the interactions they have shared are based around their merch or videos.

I'm just adding to the general blegh at this point but I wanna get it out anyway.

I saw his insta story announcement this morning and ironically, my first reaction was "UGH". If Dan wants to design merch clothes and accessories and do nothing else creatively, he has every right to do that, but idk, I'd like him to voice (tweet, whatever) that decision so I could stop hoping. we've been through the same thing three times since BIG and it'd be nice to know his reasoning for social media activity for certain, even if its the opposite of what I'd like. getting increasingly annoyed and feeling increasingly manipulated with each merch drop.

At this point I'm not that invested in what Dan wants to do, I've resigned to the fact that this is just how he wants to do his business. I feel a little sad and disappointed, but his merch has never appealed to me (ironic cause I also mostly wear black) so whenever he does something like this, I just relish on the pics and move on.

Phil's content (and his face tbh what a nice face) has been making me happy and satisfied lately that I feel like he SHOULD release another merch. Maybe a January/birthday release would be great. Throw in some Norman tees and jumpers and another candle please.

Phantasy wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:02 am The smattering of activity (chum in the water) before a merch drop seems a bit too textbook even by Dan’s standards—maybe I’m giving him too much credit (or perhaps being wishful), but I wonder if he’s well aware of the backlash and is having a nice big laugh because he plans to drop a video along with the merch—perhaps a mukbang or some other kind of ~JOint ConTeNT~, knowing damn well most all the criticism would wash away.

I'm still holding out on a surprise video sometime in the next week or so as well, be it joint or not. Futile maybe, but it's still there.
Yes we shouldn't be able to recognise how much we're being manipulated, especially with Phil joining in with it albeit subtly.

Phantasy wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:02 am The smattering of activity (chum in the water) before a merch drop seems a bit too textbook even by Dan’s standards—maybe I’m giving him too much credit (or perhaps being wishful), but I wonder if he’s well aware of the backlash and is having a nice big laugh because he plans to drop a video along with the merch—perhaps a mukbang or some other kind of ~JOint ConTeNT~, knowing damn well most all the criticism would wash away.

If that was the case it would kinda be even worse for me. I don't like feeling played by creators I enjoy watching and the idea of Dan knowing we want him to interact with us and staying silent just so he can drop a new video and yell "surprise" is very off-putting to me. It also invites conflict into his fandom because if that happened, you'd just know a lot of people would attack those who were disappointed in him yesterday and today for not believing in him or whatever. I think the current situation is bad but I also kind of hope it's just a merch drop because somehow any other scenario feels worse to me.

lovestillaround wrote:And I really wouldn't like if Dan actually posted a video soon, being all like "ha! and what? y'all overreacted for no reason because you don't have any idea about anything, ever!" They want their audience to have infinitive trust in them without having to actually do or say anything ever... but trust just doesn't work like this?

Yes, this.

Susanisnotafish wrote:For now, I’m gonna talk about Phil. I had a thought that I wondered if others had: I was wondering if part of the reason Phil changed his hair color was so he would be noticed less in public? There are more guys with brown hair out there than raven black I would imagine. All the better for blending in? Whatever the reason, I hope he doesn’t go back to black.

Haha, maybe he just got tired of the black, who knows. I love that he changed it actually. The black was great back in his emo days but he has outgrown that so maybe the black hair had to go too? Maybe he'll talk about it one day, I'd like to know the reason.