Dan & Phil Part 57: Pinky and the Brain

[alittledizzy]

I think I'm in a place where nope, Dan doesn't get brownie points, but at the same time I can still appreciate that Dan at least cares enough to pointedly make sure his audience knows that despite hanging out with Felix, he doesn't condone or agree with Felix's behavior. It's a neutral mark to me; I would have been one of many actually angry if he'd just shown up hanging out with Felix without saying nothing, so while the gesture of saying he'll talk to Felix doesn't resonate as a positive it also serves the purpose of defusing the otherwise immediate reaction I would have had.

[liola]

I'm on mobile so I can't quote everyone but to make myself clear: I'm not giving excuses about Felix. What he did Is awful and wrong and he needs to learn and face consequences - which he partly did, at least at the time of the nazi "joke".

What I was trying to say is that I'd like to give Dan and Phil at least a little bit more credit, we don't know FOR SURE that Dan's comment was just thrown in there to save his ass and he won't actually say anything. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he did already and just never spoke about it. I'd like to think that the people I enjoy watching, who are doing good things about so many subjects would be good enough to also take a position in things that matter against racism.

We don't know them, we don't know how deep their relationship with Felix is and we won't know the boundaries of that relationship, so to say he 100% only tried to cover his ass just doesn't sit well with me. He might have done it for that exact reason, I'm not saying he didn't, I'm saying I cannot be sure qnd I already have a very small amount of hope in humanity, I'd rather be somewhat naive and hope they do something good.

And it's also nor quite easy to completely erase people from your life, especially when they have power in the industry you're working in - whether or not they abuse that power I can't condemn them for being careful.

I'm assuming the reason Dan hasn't spoken out about the Felix issue before is exactly this - there would be negativity surrounding it, and I doubt it's a relationship close enough to them that they want to engage in such a discussion. One can only hope that just because they were not vocal about it before, they would be now - when they really cannot avoid it. Is it damage control? At least a good chunk of it, yes. Can I honestly say it's a bad kind of damage control? Eh. Better than not saying anything and then having pics of the bday dinner posted and trying to explain it after it happened

[tigertatze]

LOL

This is my new favorite Phil tweet

[CapriciousCrab]

I think Dan and Phil are in a difficult position for many of the reasons others have stated and are trying to find a balance between making it known they disapprove of what he said without rocking the boat too much.

However, I do wonder if their reactions would have been different had PDP used a homophobic slur rather than a racist one. People seem to be more willing to forgive shitty behavior when it's not aimed at themselves/their race/their community.

[onetruetrash]

However, I do wonder if their reactions would have been different had PDP used a homophobic slur rather than a racist one. People seem to be more willing to forgive shitty behavior when it's not aimed at themselves/their race/their community.

Eh probably not. Phil openly collabed with Nanalew a few months back, who has openly spoken out against gay marriage.

[alittledizzy]

However, I do wonder if their reactions would have been different had PDP used a homophobic slur rather than a racist one. People seem to be more willing to forgive shitty behavior when it's not aimed at themselves/their race/their community.

Eh probably not. Phil openly collabed with Nanalew a few months back, who has openly spoken out against gay marriage.

I'm more inclined to think that Phil wasn't aware that Shawna had spoken out against gay marriage until after her first video was posted, and I think his behavior was slightly adjusted once he knew that. He didn't even retweet the second half of their collab on her channel, and barely even mentioned the video he did with her in the livestream he did following it. He definitely dimmed the hype around the video considering it was a main channel one. (And I'm glad he did. Not sure I could have stomached him being super enthusiastic about that.)

On the same note I find it very unlikely that Dan and Phil will ever film with Felix and Marzia again. I'd struggle hard with that if they did. (I mean, unless Dan wants to have that convo with Felix and film it. In which case, be my guest.)

[nephilimcat]

I know I am very outspoken against Felix and people who are racist, homophobic, etc. in general. I'm always criticising those people and I am not happy that Dan and Phil still somewhat associate with one of them. BUT I understand it. There have been many times I ignored comments of people close to me that were either ignorant or plain racist/homophobic/etc. when they were not coming from a place of hatred and violence but miseducation, fear, stubbornness, ignorance. I know I will never not say anything if someone is doing or saying something like that out of pure hatred and if I witness someone attacking another person, I will do what I can to stop that. But if that's not the case, I don't always do something. I cringe and feel bad and make sure not to agree but I don't say anything or give up when they don't want to listen. Whether it affects me personally or someone else/another group of people doesn't make a difference btw, so it's not like I do this because I can't be bothered to help other people. I always feel guilty but it's so much easier to say your opinion online or when you have people to back you up or to someone you will never see again than to confront a colleague, person in a friend group, family member, etc.
Should I say something? Of course. But I want to admit to all of you that I don't always do that. And there isn't always a good reason for it (though sometimes there is, like it when it's taking a toll on my mental health or impacting me badly in other ways). I want to tell you guys that even then I won't always do something. It's because it's easier. And I know it isn't right but I don't think this makes me a bad person. And I am sure Dan and Phil and a lot of people are like that as well.

Besides, it's easier to let go of one friend than a person that is in a friend group. For all we know they don't actually like Felix but they like Marzia, PJ, and Sophie and I understand why it would make things awkward to stop associating with him. As bad as it may be. Yes, they are rich white dudes, they aren't perfect. We shouldn't let them get away with bad behaviour and it's important to discuss situations like this. But this neither means they are bad people nor does it negate everything else they ever did or said against racism and other horrible things. Generally, I think they are good people with good hearts. They just take the easier route sometimes and damn, who doesn't?

[thatdanandphilguy]

Be face to face with someone you know and see if you can call them out for their problematic shit and cut them out of your life. I dare say most of the people who say they would, really wouldn’t be able to do it if they were in that situation. It’s so easy to sit on your high horse behind the computer screen, call people out left and right and tell what others should do when you’re anonymous. Real life isn’t black or white, there’s so many various reasons to why people don’t cut off people from their lives. For real, you’d think when someone is in abusive relationship, they’d just leave when the abuse starts. But no, a lot of the time that is not what happens, people stay. So you think when someone makes stupid ass comments that make you feel uncomfortable but aren’t directed at you, you would just like that cut the person out of your life? Highly unlikely, especially if you’re a person who likes to stay away from all kinds of confrontations.

I don’t fault D&P at all for not cutting contact with Felix. I’m just happy Dan did make it clear he doesn’t appreciate his actions. Yes it was damage control, but still I do fully believe in him being against that kind of bullshit and maybe some kind of conversation will actually be had, who knows. He is a good lad and totally unrelated to any shit Felix has caused, staying in friendly terms with someone problematic doesn’t make one a bad person. Life is not simple, quite often it just feels like people online forget that.

Considering how much this little shitstorm annoyed me, I’m glad Dan mentioned Felix before pictures of the birthday thing surface, so that I don’t have to see the major shithurricane that would have happened if he hadn’t said anything at all. Though since it was a live show and not everyone watches those, it might still be coming. Sigh.

On more positive things: I’ve absolutely loved all the latest live shows and gaming streams, so much good content, my heart can barely take it. And I can’t even really say anything about Dan’s video, I wanted to log in to comment it when he posted it but I found no words and I still can’t really express how amazing and important that video is. That boy really speaks my language and he had me sobbing during the whole video and for a long time after it, which is a reaction I totally wasn’t expecting to have. He talked about things I had never heard someone say out loud before and that was just so meaningful to me.

[papierklemmen]

LOL

ok THIS is hilarious

[DatCog]

Louise's video is up:

Hope she didn't bully them into touching her bump for the thumbnail

[nigel ratburn]

listen, i HATE confrontation, i really do, and i know that it can be difficult to call people out to their face, especially when they're a part of a friend group you're in, but allyship doesn't mean much when it isn't backed up by action. sure, everyone ignores problematic behavior (which i think is too mild a term to describe felix's actions specifically) to a certain degree sometimes, but that doesn't make it okay. life may not be black-and-white, but dropping the n-word casually and then barely apologizing for it (along with a long history of anti-semitic, homophobic, and misogynistic comments, lest we forget) isn't nuanced. whether or not that's wrong isn't up for debate. also, this isn't something that dan and phil haven't dealt with before-- they completely cut ties with alex day, who dan expressed deep admiration for previously, when his scumminess was publicly exposed-- i know the situations are slightly different, but let's not act like dan and phil arenn't capable of cutting ties with people. i'm sorry if it annoys you to have to listen to people express their anger over this, and i really don't want to be overwhelmingly negative, but i'm sick of people acting like shrugging off blatant racism is normal or acceptable behavior. it's not.

on a more positive note, i'm excited about their collabs this week, especially for their game, even if i'm not too keen on hazel. i always like to watch their dynamic with other people who they actually have some sort of relationship with.

[allsaintshowell]

Louise's video is up:

Hope she didn't bully them into touching her bump for the thumbnail

louise: "links below for dan and phil and their booook...and, um, anything else you want to promote..."
phil: "i don't know when this is coming out."
louise: "whatever is out at the time of this, i'll link it below."

cheeky shits. the delay in posting the video was probably due to ~the thing~ tbh.

[alittledizzy]

I feel like I spent half of that video hurriedly muting their answers because I knew they'd be awful, and yet somehow I really still enjoyed it and it left me smiling. I appreciate how into it Phil actually got? And I Also appreciate that we're long past the point where I need to steal myself for future wife/future girlfriend references when the subject matter is one that easily would have lent itself to that. I definitely think they went ahead and told her that they're not into that specific brand of evasion anymore.

Okay, now I'm gonna try to watch it a second time and not mute almost every response.

[DatCog]

I really enjoyed Louise's video, there were many many funny moments! Will have to watch again.

[Ewok]

Dan saying "babe" at 4:00 in made my heart fall out of my ass. I may have replayed that moment a few times. Whoops.



Cute. That's all I have to say for now.

[LtrllySusan]

I was sceptical (especially because of how Louise has been acting recently) but I really enjoyed that!

Love how she would have called the baby Daniel if it had been a boy. Great video titles for years!

Oh, and excuse me now, I need to go cry about "You'd be great dads"

Edit: Do not google mucus plug - for some reason Google thinks you just wanna see shocking pictures and it suggested I might wanna look at giant ass spiders and I have a phobia jesus christ brb vacuuming every corner in the apartment

[fancy_nancy]

Deppy's face when hearing what an episiotomy is, is the best thing I have ever seen

[flarequake]

That was so funny, I was crying. I’m not sure who was funnier, but Phil getting so into it was lovely, Dan and Louise shared a few cute looks, Dan went all blushy and they all look gorgeous. Interesting that they’d have called a boy Daniel. I prefer the name too tbh, it’s grown on me thanks to Dan even though one of my grandfathers was a Phil. I played along and knew a few things. Some of their ideas were brilliant and boy does Dan know enough about the placenta. Random humour has served him better than he realises I can just imagine them both as her midwives, candles, curry and all.

[Ablissa]

I was scared of this video, but it ended up making me laugh Deppy were super funny, I wasn't put off by any of their answers, they had just enough knowledge for me not to cringe (I didn't know all of the things either, shame I guess but I don't have kids), I thought they were hilarious.

Also... I love how Louise said that they'd be great dads, but in a "Three Men and a Baby" kind of way, implying they'd be dads together.

Lastly, I'm loving the lack of in this. Overall a good video.

[snokoplasmic]

aw, that was nice! i was sooo prepared to experience tons of second-hand embarrassment but i actually didn't at all, i just found it all extremely funny. maybe it's because i barely knew any of the terms, but i was guessing and laughing along with them

[liola]

First of all Dan saying babe and Phil nor quite managing to avoid reacting, I can literally see his muscles twitching lmao

Also I'm sorry but louise's "how big are the vaginas you've seen in your life" to Phil had me DYING for some reason.

Dan calling it rude area

THE MASSAGE PART AND LOUISE WONDERING WHY DAN USED 4 FINGERS I was eating and I choked help

Besides the dads comment I wanna point out how Louise specifically said "so when the next time you have a friend pregnant you can help" like..how easy would've been to say girlfriend/wife?

[MaggieW]

That was so lovely As some of you, I expected second hand embarrassment but it was better than I thought! Their faces when Louise talked about episiotomy Yes, it's terrifying guys.

Also... I love how Louise said that they'd be great dads, but in a "Three Men and a Baby" kind of way, implying they'd be dads together.

Lastly, I'm loving the lack of in this. Overall a good video.

This! Sometimes I'm still surprised of how much things have changed. And how far down the trash can can I go. :number1: This is one of those times.

Also, can I say that I love Louise pink hair?? It suits her so well!

[Catallena]

I'm waiting a bit with the Louise video to figure out by the hand of reviews here and on Twitter how badly it'll trigger tokophobia so I'll waste my time posting more about this issue. I'll put it under a spoiler to not intervene with the video discussion tho.

I think I'm in a place where nope, Dan doesn't get brownie points, but at the same time I can still appreciate that Dan at least cares enough to pointedly make sure his audience knows that despite hanging out with Felix, he doesn't condone or agree with Felix's behavior. It's a neutral mark to me; I would have been one of many actually angry if he'd just shown up hanging out with Felix without saying nothing, so while the gesture of saying he'll talk to Felix doesn't resonate as a positive it also serves the purpose of defusing the otherwise immediate reaction I would have had.

I see it like this; Dan did the bare minimum which isn't particularly praise worthy, but most other YouTubers didn't do anything. And because of that our standards are low so yay Dan for acknowledging it at least..

I'm on mobile so I can't quote everyone but to make myself clear: I'm not giving excuses about Felix. What he did Is awful and wrong and he needs to learn and face consequences - which he partly did, at least at the time of the nazi "joke".

What I was trying to say is that I'd like to give Dan and Phil at least a little bit more credit, we don't know FOR SURE that Dan's comment was just thrown in there to save his ass and he won't actually say anything. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he did already and just never spoke about it. I'd like to think that the people I enjoy watching, who are doing good things about so many subjects would be good enough to also take a position in things that matter against racism.

We don't know them, we don't know how deep their relationship with Felix is and we won't know the boundaries of that relationship, so to say he 100% only tried to cover his ass just doesn't sit well with me. He might have done it for that exact reason, I'm not saying he didn't, I'm saying I cannot be sure qnd I already have a very small amount of hope in humanity, I'd rather be somewhat naive and hope they do something good.

And it's also nor quite easy to completely erase people from your life, especially when they have power in the industry you're working in - whether or not they abuse that power I can't condemn them for being careful.

I'm assuming the reason Dan hasn't spoken out about the Felix issue before is exactly this - there would be negativity surrounding it, and I doubt it's a relationship close enough to them that they want to engage in such a discussion. One can only hope that just because they were not vocal about it before, they would be now - when they really cannot avoid it. Is it damage control? At least a good chunk of it, yes. Can I honestly say it's a bad kind of damage control? Eh. Better than not saying anything and then having pics of the bday dinner posted and trying to explain it after it happened

I'm all for you need being as negative as I am and stuff (not even sarcasm I swear) but since when do we have an issue with drawing conclusion based on speculation on here though? We have never known them and that has never stopped us before.. You're assuming things based on nothing as well aren't you?

I know I am very outspoken against Felix and people who are racist, homophobic, etc. in general. I'm always criticising those people and I am not happy that Dan and Phil still somewhat associate with one of them. BUT I understand it. There have been many times I ignored comments of people close to me that were either ignorant or plain racist/homophobic/etc. when they were not coming from a place of hatred and violence but miseducation, fear, stubbornness, ignorance. I know I will never not say anything if someone is doing or saying something like that out of pure hatred and if I witness someone attacking another person, I will do what I can to stop that. But if that's not the case, I don't always do something. I cringe and feel bad and make sure not to agree but I don't say anything or give up when they don't want to listen. Whether it affects me personally or someone else/another group of people doesn't make a difference btw, so it's not like I do this because I can't be bothered to help other people. I always feel guilty but it's so much easier to say your opinion online or when you have people to back you up or to someone you will never see again than to confront a colleague, person in a friend group, family member, etc.
Should I say something? Of course. But I want to admit to all of you that I don't always do that. And there isn't always a good reason for it (though sometimes there is, like it when it's taking a toll on my mental health or impacting me badly in other ways). I want to tell you guys that even then I won't always do something. It's because it's easier. And I know it isn't right but I don't think this makes me a bad person. And I am sure Dan and Phil and a lot of people are like that as well.

Besides, it's easier to let go of one friend than a person that is in a friend group. For all we know they don't actually like Felix but they like Marzia, PJ, and Sophie and I understand why it would make things awkward to stop associating with him. As bad as it may be. Yes, they are rich white dudes, they aren't perfect. We shouldn't let them get away with bad behaviour and it's important to discuss situations like this. But this neither means they are bad people nor does it negate everything else they ever did or said against racism and other horrible things. Generally, I think they are good people with good hearts. They just take the easier route sometimes and damn, who doesn't?

I do get this. We all have our problematic faves and friends, we all justify things to ourselves and others, and we probably all feel conflicted and guilty about certain choices we have to make. It's life and stuff. I have faves who fucked up or are in a group with someone who did, yet I still support them. I have a friend whose political views on some subjects are disturbing to me yet I continue to be friends with her (although far less close than before.. this week I spoke to her for the first time since February). I don't think any of us are evil, and certainly not Dan and Phil. But that wasn't the point of my original post. My point was that Dan's choice to hang out with Felix and justify it to us (and possibly himself) by saying he would talk about it, was met with praise while ultimately it really didn't deserve it. He really just did what we all do. Make a choice. The girl in my avatar, Nana, is in a group with someone who did blackface for a play a while back and she thought it was funny. I made the choice to keep stanning my ult fave group, and justified it to myself by saying I never liked that other member much anyway (I genuinely didn't so that helped) so I'll just distance myself from her and continue to support the others. That's not worthy of praise, it was a selfish decision made for nobody but me. And Dan kinda did the same thing, except with a friend. Taking the easier route is fine and all and yes we all do it, but he kinda makes it seem like he isn't and the phandom was all like HE DID THAT and it's just like ???

Plus I agree with @nigel ratburn in that Felix is not just problematic. Felix has a history of racist, anti-semitic, sexist and homophobic behavior. And he never learns because he doesn't want to and it's easier to pander to the alt-right crowd instead who will defend him. He's ignorant and bigoted on purpose. That's also a choice he made for himself. Calling that 'a difference of opinion' is really missing the mark.

And that it's for this post. Not even gonna respond to a comparison of cutting the alt-right poster boy of YouTube out of their lives to an abusive relationship. I'll go sit on my high horse now, his name is Oscar btw.

[nephilimcat]

The video really wasn't my cup of tea. Pregnancy freaks me out a little, I don't like Louise (anymore), it wasn't interesting to me either. Dan and Phil were quite cute and it was quite funny but a bit meh. Didn't expect much though, so it's all good

[chiccola]

First of all Dan saying babe and Phil nor quite managing to avoid reacting, I can literally see his muscles twitching lmao

I went back just to rewatch it and this is the reaction when hearing the word babe