Dan & Phil Part 47: Do it with Dan!

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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saffarinda
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somethingsketchy wrote:
anime_is_not_cool wrote:I think it's mostly just the youtube fan / shipping culture changing. When I joined phandom and tumblr a few years ago, the tumblr tags for example were full of people screaming every time (or any other youtubers that were shipped together) accidentally touched in a video etc. Youtubers aren't so hyped anymore, but that doesn't mean they aren't popular or people don't watch them.
saffarinda wrote:Re. Less Active Fandom: I was in the phandom most actively between 2013-2014 and I'd say it was much more active in comparison to now. I feel as though one of the reasons for that may be the radio show. Whilst the books and tour were large events that the phandom could obsess over, we're now left with no main project occurring, just videos. The radio show was almost a weekly project - something outside of youtube that people could get hyped about. I remember live blogging the radio show on tumblr and everyone talking between every song - it was a collective event that brought us all together. If you're not aware of forums such as IDB, and you're a smaller account, you're basically left reblogging/retweeting gifs, jokes regarding videos etc. When the project they're working on is revealed, I feel as though the phandom will become much more active again.
These observations fit the impression that I have based on my experiences as an avid Tumblr user outside all the YT fan communities. Back in 2013-2014 I regularly saw posts about Youtubers like D&P, Tyler Oakley and Markiplier on my dash without following any Youtuber fan accounts. I have no idea where all the posts came from and at first I didn't even know who all these people were, but nonetheless it was impossible to not be aware of Youtubers because they seemed to be everywhere. For example, I can remember D&P's radio show being a big thing and that seemingly everyone was freaking out the day when their last weekly show aired, which is a weirdly specific memory to have considering I hadn't ever listened to their show or even seen any of their videos at that point.

Now, I've admittedly taken a couple of long breaks from Tumblr during the years, and my memories aren't super clear, but I still think the hype around all Youtubers has definitely gone down after 2014, at least on Tumblr, because I can't remember seeing any of them on my dash that much for the past couple of years. The exception has been certain dramatic instances, like the whole Pewdiepie-gate (or whatever it's called) of 2016-17, that have been big enough to be visible for people who don't follow Youtubers or their fans outside Youtube. I don't think this necessarily means that people watch YT or D&P less than before but it certainly means that the phandom has changed. For example, 3/4 of all the phanfic on AO3 has been published after August 2015, which in my opinion is noteworthy considering that someone here claimed that the amount of new phanfic published on Tumblr is smaller than before.
I remember how angry and sad everyone was that the weekly shows were ending. Even though the internet takeover was coming, everyone LOVED the weekly radio shows - I genuinely remember crying towards the end and after the show (especially with Dan's "end of an era" tweet). It was a massive moment for all of us at the time, paticularly because Dan and Phil rarely uploaded back then, it felt as if all content was being stripped away from us tbh.

Almost all phanfic was published on tumblr in early years, no idea why really - I assume it's so people could connect with the authors on a more personal level - we all messaged asks to our fave authors and could have conversations with them, you could see more about what they were doing in the real world, and saw a bit of their personality and likes; they influenced me a lot when I was younger. With ao3 you can't really have that connection.

However, oddly enough, I remember one phanfic authors address got found, and someone sent them pizza and put some things through their letterbox (they - the writer - was either in year 11 or in their first year of college at the time) and she had to contact the police, who really didn't take it seriously despite the fact that she was incredibly horrifed by the fact that someone had found her house. Her parent's were disturbed and uncomfortable as well, so perhaps in some ways despite the fact that we lose that connection when using ao3 - which I feel really kept the phandom active - it can help in keeping people protected. Obviously this is just an isolated incident but it is, nevertheless, unsettling.
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onetruetrash
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Apparently Dan was put in another teen magazine. Poor Dan.

That story about the phanfic author is creepy. Did they leave the Phandom after that or did they keep writing?
saffarinda
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onetruetrash wrote:Apparently Dan was put in another teen magazine. Poor Dan.

That story about the phanfic author is creepy. Did they leave the Phandom after that or did they keep writing?
lol i saw the teen mag.

They kept writing! Their tumblr is phanlight (or it might be pianodan now, they rebranded) but she continued to write for a while. She used to be vv popular, esp some of her stuff like Two Roads Meet and Blackwood (which she deleted a while ago, and it was so good rip).
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onetruetrash
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saffarinda wrote:They kept writing! Their tumblr is phanlight (or it might be pianodan now, they rebranded) but she continued to write for a while. She used to be vv popular, esp some of her stuff like Two Roads Meet and Blackwood (which she deleted a while ago, and it was so good rip).
I'm happy to hear that!

Edit: I've never heard of Blackwood but I found this: http://pianodan.co.vu/blackwoodacademy Good news if you liked it, it might not be gone forever.
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DatCog
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Looks like another possible terror attack, this time in London. Hope everyone is safe xxx
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for FUCK'S sake

can't they leave us alone
nope.
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alittledizzy
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plath
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Glad they're okay.

Three incidents happening right now? This is so fucked up I just can't. I'm waiting to hear back from my friend and I'm just so sick of all of this.
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saffarinda
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It lowkey grates on me when people constantly tweet dnp inquiring their safety during events like these. If they were out in central London, it's likely we would know. Glad Dan replied so people would stop tweeting them with stuff akin to that and begin expressing horror at people who are being affected by it.

(I know it's just people expressing their concern, but it seems unfounded, removes way too much attention from the actual events, and just creates more panic).

This attack is awful though - I sometimes wonder what our world has come to in the past few years.

[offtopic]Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May paused in their campaigning out of respect for Mancheter, wonder whether they'll have time to do the same so close to the election.[/offtopic]
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uglyamerican
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saffarinda wrote:It lowkey grates on me when people constantly tweet dnp inquiring their safety during events like these. If they were out in central London, it's likely we would know. Glad Dan replied so people would stop tweeting them with stuff akin to that and begin expressing horror at people who are being affected by it.

(I know it's just people expressing their concern, but it seems unfounded, removes way too much attention from the actual events, and just creates more panic).

This attack is awful though - I sometimes wonder what our world has come to in the past few years.

[offtopic]Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May paused in their campaigning out of respect for Mancheter, wonder whether they'll have time to do the same so close to the election.[/offtopic]
Meanwhile, King Donald the Orange used his very first tweet about the latest terrorist incident to further his political goals by attempting to shame/influence the Supreme Court to reverse a lower court stay and reinstitute his travel ban.
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uglyamerican wrote:
saffarinda wrote:It lowkey grates on me when people constantly tweet dnp inquiring their safety during events like these. If they were out in central London, it's likely we would know. Glad Dan replied so people would stop tweeting them with stuff akin to that and begin expressing horror at people who are being affected by it.

(I know it's just people expressing their concern, but it seems unfounded, removes way too much attention from the actual events, and just creates more panic).

This attack is awful though - I sometimes wonder what our world has come to in the past few years.

[offtopic]Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May paused in their campaigning out of respect for Mancheter, wonder whether they'll have time to do the same so close to the election.[/offtopic]
Meanwhile, King Donald the Orange used his very first tweet about the latest terrorist incident to further his political goals by attempting to shame/influence the Supreme Court to reverse a lower court stay and reinstitute his travel ban.
To all my British IDBers, my thoughts and heart is with you once again. I have trouble getting my mind around an ideology based in hate and murder. This has to end!

Re the pumpkin from hell: He is completely morally bankrupt. Morally bankrupt and corrupt. He's not the Commander in Chief, he's the Narcissist in Chief. It's ALL about him! (I have to quit now, just thinking about him makes me nauseous,)

Again I beg you all to VOTE! and to vote wisely, lest you end up in similar circumstances!

On the other hand, the French president issued an appropriate statement of care and support. Vive la France!
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LtrllySusan
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It's terrifying times we seem to live in. I hate the way it affects my thinking (I was considering the UK as one of the countries to move to after graduation) and I hate how helpless it makes me feel :/

The One Love concert is tonight, with lots of livestreams available: http://onelovemanchester.com/

I also think that Phil will not do a LS because of that, which I respect and support.
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LtrllySusan wrote:The One Love concert is tonight, with lots of livestreams available: http://onelovemanchester.com/

I also think that Phil will not do a LS because of that, which I respect and support.
You are right.
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I'm usually lurking here reading but not posting, but I still just want to give squishy hugs to all my fellow London IDB'ers

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I live in London and was over by London Bridge the same time Friday night with a bunch of my family. Really scary to think about. Stay safe everyone
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I think that was a very tactful call by Phil, he made the right decision. Love to everyone in London right now, I hope you're all okay
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alittledizzy
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Glad to see London IDB users checking in.

I think it's a good call from Phil to put the liveshow off.
saffarinda wrote:Almost all phanfic was published on tumblr in early years, no idea why really - I assume it's so people could connect with the authors on a more personal level - we all messaged asks to our fave authors and could have conversations with them, you could see more about what they were doing in the real world, and saw a bit of their personality and likes; they influenced me a lot when I was younger. With ao3 you can't really have that connection.
From the perspective of both writer and reader, shifting the publication of fanfic to ao3 is a good thing. Tumblr layouts are an unholy terror to read on and it feels like generally the popular blogs are the only ones that get read, so coming into phandom in 2015 I got zero sense of community from the fic side of it. It's only in the most recent couple of months that I get any feedback for fic on tumblr - no one messaged me before, posting it there just meant it was going to an extremely limited audience with no interaction. People in phandom don't even generally leave feedback in the tags of fic. It might be nice for the reader to immediately see a link back to the writer's tumblr and get a sense of their personality but it can feel like posting into a vacuum for the writer. With ao3 I get, if absolutely nothing else, a hit counter that tells me how many people are even clicking to read.

I don't know if that's a shift in attitude across the board since 2012-2014ish (more people in more fandoms settling into ao3 as a better format for posting) or specifically in phandom.
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On a happier note -- one week until Dan's Daniel's birthday! Perhaps Philip will drop some hints as to the festivities :D
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itsonlybeth
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Moving the liveshow was definitely the best thing Phil could have done today, very considerate of him. Dan's response on twitter was also very safe, I almost wish he could just tell everyone not to worry about them in events like this. Of course we're concerned, but after all we don't know them, and our thoughts should be with those closer to us in my opinion.

On a similar note, what is this world coming to...
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Sending love to all the UK based IDBers, especially those in London.
alittledizzy wrote:Glad to see London IDB users checking in.

I think it's a good call from Phil to put the liveshow off.
saffarinda wrote:Almost all phanfic was published on tumblr in early years, no idea why really - I assume it's so people could connect with the authors on a more personal level - we all messaged asks to our fave authors and could have conversations with them, you could see more about what they were doing in the real world, and saw a bit of their personality and likes; they influenced me a lot when I was younger. With ao3 you can't really have that connection.
From the perspective of both writer and reader, shifting the publication of fanfic to ao3 is a good thing. Tumblr layouts are an unholy terror to read on and it feels like generally the popular blogs are the only ones that get read, so coming into phandom in 2015 I got zero sense of community from the fic side of it. It's only in the most recent couple of months that I get any feedback for fic on tumblr - no one messaged me before, posting it there just meant it was going to an extremely limited audience with no interaction. People in phandom don't even generally leave feedback in the tags of fic. It might be nice for the reader to immediately see a link back to the writer's tumblr and get a sense of their personality but it can feel like posting into a vacuum for the writer. With ao3 I get, if absolutely nothing else, a hit counter that tells me how many people are even clicking to read.

I don't know if that's a shift in attitude across the board since 2012-2014ish (more people in more fandoms settling into ao3 as a better format for posting) or specifically in phandom.
Depends on what you want out of the experience as a writer. If getting feedback and such on your writing is important to you then AO3 (or any other fanfic specific website where your fandom of choice happens to be active on like kpop fans have AsianFanfics and many old fandoms are still on FF.net) is the way to go. But that's not the experience Tumblr writers tend to want in my experience. They're looking for more followers and a sense of community that isn't just build around fanfiction, but around them and their interests. It's a social media platform after all. You follow a person who happens to write fanfiction, not a fanfiction that happens to be written by a person. The most popular fanfic writers back in the day also had quality blogs to back up their writing which made people actually want to follow and because they followed the blog they kept reading their fics because they showed up on the dash. So when you went looking for a specific fanfic community in the phandom, it wasn't really there. Because that's just not what Tumblr is. Sucks for people who don't want to keep up with a Tumblr blog as much because it's harder for them to gain recognition for their writing aside from people who stalk the appropriate tags but yeah

The fanfic community on Tumblr in general died in 2015 though. With some exceptions, most of the writers who are left on Tumblr write drabbles and headcanons at most. I like having those on Tumblr, they're quick easy reads on my dash and in the tags. Chaptered fics on Tumblr are a bitch though cause I ain't following everyone who posts one just to keep up with it.
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saffarinda
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Catallena wrote:Sending love to all the UK based IDBers, especially those in London.
alittledizzy wrote:Glad to see London IDB users checking in.

I think it's a good call from Phil to put the liveshow off.
saffarinda wrote:Almost all phanfic was published on tumblr in early years, no idea why really - I assume it's so people could connect with the authors on a more personal level - we all messaged asks to our fave authors and could have conversations with them, you could see more about what they were doing in the real world, and saw a bit of their personality and likes; they influenced me a lot when I was younger. With ao3 you can't really have that connection.
From the perspective of both writer and reader, shifting the publication of fanfic to ao3 is a good thing. Tumblr layouts are an unholy terror to read on and it feels like generally the popular blogs are the only ones that get read, so coming into phandom in 2015 I got zero sense of community from the fic side of it. It's only in the most recent couple of months that I get any feedback for fic on tumblr - no one messaged me before, posting it there just meant it was going to an extremely limited audience with no interaction. People in phandom don't even generally leave feedback in the tags of fic. It might be nice for the reader to immediately see a link back to the writer's tumblr and get a sense of their personality but it can feel like posting into a vacuum for the writer. With ao3 I get, if absolutely nothing else, a hit counter that tells me how many people are even clicking to read.

I don't know if that's a shift in attitude across the board since 2012-2014ish (more people in more fandoms settling into ao3 as a better format for posting) or specifically in phandom.
Depends on what you want out of the experience as a writer. If getting feedback and such on your writing is important to you then AO3 (or any other fanfic specific website where your fandom of choice happens to be active on like kpop fans have AsianFanfics and many old fandoms are still on FF.net) is the way to go. But that's not the experience Tumblr writers tend to want in my experience. They're looking for more followers and a sense of community that isn't just build around fanfiction, but around them and their interests. It's a social media platform after all. You follow a person who happens to write fanfiction, not a fanfiction that happens to be written by a person. The most popular fanfic writers back in the day also had quality blogs to back up their writing which made people actually want to follow and because they followed the blog they kept reading their fics because they showed up on the dash. So when you went looking for a specific fanfic community in the phandom, it wasn't really there. Because that's just not what Tumblr is. Sucks for people who don't want to keep up with a Tumblr blog as much because it's harder for them to gain recognition for their writing aside from people who stalk the appropriate tags but yeah

The fanfic community on Tumblr in general died in 2015 though. With some exceptions, most of the writers who are left on Tumblr write drabbles and headcanons at most. I like having those on Tumblr, they're quick easy reads on my dash and in the tags. Chaptered fics on Tumblr are a bitch though cause I ain't following everyone who posts one just to keep up with it.
Completely agree with the different experiences. As a reader, I always liked the communication we all got in talking to the author through asks and building a connection with them through stuff other than their writing. I can completely understand how authors would favour ao3 though, with regards to giving kudos/writing comments I personally find it much easier to drop a comment on ao3 than send someone an ask that all their followers will see.

I feel as though the community of the phandom is what keeps me here - if I have no one to interact with then I lose the enjoyment from interacting with people, discussing the videos and theories etc. I'm honestly really glad this forum exists because it allows us to interact and discuss everything with one another, without either having to have one sided conversations on tumblr through text posts, or making close friends within the phandom (I have no idea how people do it, I feel so awkward and judged online so when people manage to make internet friends... damn, just how?!).

Sometimes formatting was so shit though, I prefer ao3 for bookmarking and writing my own lil notes so when I'm re-reading I remember it and feel a sense of nostalgia.
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Sending love to the U.K. Very glad to see people check in on here and Tumblr. Very wise of Phil to postpone. I won't be able to catch the stream today, but hope I can find some video tomorrow. I went to school with two of Ariana's back up dancers/choreographers (the twins). Stay safe everyone.
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saffarinda wrote:
Catallena wrote:Sending love to all the UK based IDBers, especially those in London.
alittledizzy wrote:Glad to see London IDB users checking in.

I think it's a good call from Phil to put the liveshow off.
saffarinda wrote:Almost all phanfic was published on tumblr in early years, no idea why really - I assume it's so people could connect with the authors on a more personal level - we all messaged asks to our fave authors and could have conversations with them, you could see more about what they were doing in the real world, and saw a bit of their personality and likes; they influenced me a lot when I was younger. With ao3 you can't really have that connection.
From the perspective of both writer and reader, shifting the publication of fanfic to ao3 is a good thing. Tumblr layouts are an unholy terror to read on and it feels like generally the popular blogs are the only ones that get read, so coming into phandom in 2015 I got zero sense of community from the fic side of it. It's only in the most recent couple of months that I get any feedback for fic on tumblr - no one messaged me before, posting it there just meant it was going to an extremely limited audience with no interaction. People in phandom don't even generally leave feedback in the tags of fic. It might be nice for the reader to immediately see a link back to the writer's tumblr and get a sense of their personality but it can feel like posting into a vacuum for the writer. With ao3 I get, if absolutely nothing else, a hit counter that tells me how many people are even clicking to read.

I don't know if that's a shift in attitude across the board since 2012-2014ish (more people in more fandoms settling into ao3 as a better format for posting) or specifically in phandom.
Depends on what you want out of the experience as a writer. If getting feedback and such on your writing is important to you then AO3 (or any other fanfic specific website where your fandom of choice happens to be active on like kpop fans have AsianFanfics and many old fandoms are still on FF.net) is the way to go. But that's not the experience Tumblr writers tend to want in my experience. They're looking for more followers and a sense of community that isn't just build around fanfiction, but around them and their interests. It's a social media platform after all. You follow a person who happens to write fanfiction, not a fanfiction that happens to be written by a person. The most popular fanfic writers back in the day also had quality blogs to back up their writing which made people actually want to follow and because they followed the blog they kept reading their fics because they showed up on the dash. So when you went looking for a specific fanfic community in the phandom, it wasn't really there. Because that's just not what Tumblr is. Sucks for people who don't want to keep up with a Tumblr blog as much because it's harder for them to gain recognition for their writing aside from people who stalk the appropriate tags but yeah

The fanfic community on Tumblr in general died in 2015 though. With some exceptions, most of the writers who are left on Tumblr write drabbles and headcanons at most. I like having those on Tumblr, they're quick easy reads on my dash and in the tags. Chaptered fics on Tumblr are a bitch though cause I ain't following everyone who posts one just to keep up with it.
Completely agree with the different experiences. As a reader, I always liked the communication we all got in talking to the author through asks and building a connection with them through stuff other than their writing. I can completely understand how authors would favour ao3 though, with regards to giving kudos/writing comments I personally find it much easier to drop a comment on ao3 than send someone an ask that all their followers will see.

I feel as though the community of the phandom is what keeps me here - if I have no one to interact with then I lose the enjoyment from interacting with people, discussing the videos and theories etc. I'm honestly really glad this forum exists because it allows us to interact and discuss everything with one another, without either having to have one sided conversations on tumblr through text posts, or making close friends within the phandom (I have no idea how people do it, I feel so awkward and judged online so when people manage to make internet friends... damn, just how?!).

Sometimes formatting was so shit though, I prefer ao3 for bookmarking and writing my own lil notes so when I'm re-reading I remember it and feel a sense of nostalgia.
I feel like we're making the same point but looking at it from different sides; my point is actually that I want that kind of engagement and you don't get it on tumblr unless you're already popular for other reasons. I've been writing fic in this fandom since mid/late 2015 and only now in mid 2017 am I at a point where people want to talk to me about anything. And even now 90% of the asks I get are anonymous which doesn't feel like forming a community to me, it just feels like blank faces asking me things and then disappearing into a nothingness. So maybe it feels like a great sense of community to the reader, a person who is choosing to interact with their favorite authors and getting a response, but a) it's a hard platform to become an author that gets that interaction, and b) it still doesn't feel like a conversation the way the forum platform does. Tumblr is extremely isolating in that if someone popular doesn't reblog your work, your work will not get seen and no one will know you exist to start up a conversation or a friendship with you. Perhaps the phanfic community is good for that, but the only way I made friends in phandom was through the-forum-that-shall-not-be-named, and now IDB.

(How did this turn into my love letter to IDB? Idk, but it did. This is just my favorite place.)
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Catallena wrote: Depends on what you want out of the experience as a writer. If getting feedback and such on your writing is important to you then AO3 (or any other fanfic specific website where your fandom of choice happens to be active on like kpop fans have AsianFanfics and many old fandoms are still on FF.net) is the way to go. But that's not the experience Tumblr writers tend to want in my experience. They're looking for more followers and a sense of community that isn't just build around fanfiction, but around them and their interests. It's a social media platform after all. You follow a person who happens to write fanfiction, not a fanfiction that happens to be written by a person.
Emphasis mine, obvi. I'd argue that followers =/= community and that the tumblr format actually discourages building community. One to one friendships can flourish maybe, but I'm certain there are whole factions of the fandom that I'll never interact with just because a post from that side never floated across my dash. And part of that's just normal fannish spread, but I think tumblr makes it so much easier to only follow people you already know, and the big blogs that are everywhere, and not really go outside of that.

Also lol tumblr is terrible for fanfic writers. The discrepancy between notes I get on fics I post that have been reblogged by larger blogs and those that don't is hilarious and there's nothing else to be done outside of submitting your work to rec blogs and hoping people get curious enough to read your work and then find you on tumblr.
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I don't have much experience to base an opinion on regarding the community surrounding phanfiction and writers, as I only became active in this part of the fandom recently. What I have found that I enjoy is that if I really enjoy the work of a writer that I read on tumblr or ao3, I can reach out to them through a comment or message and then that can easily turn into a friendship or writing partnership. But then again, that is less of a community and more one-on-one relationships. I think I am fine with this as I, to be honest, have always been bad at maintaining an existence in a community, and find it easier to keep up with my one-on-one conversations. But I also have enjoyed watching communities from afar, so I can completely understand the frustration that writers may feel. I am also guilty of at one point not understanding the importance of comments/kudos/reblogging fics that I read and enjoy (I am embarrassed to say that now, especially as someone who write now, but I used to never think about it) and so I am sadly sure there are many readers who also don't show they love the fics they read, which of course does not help build community.
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