Dan & Phil part 27: Let's Go Home

[Galactic-Howell]

GUYS. Guys. Guys.

Its happened. My phan goggles are back.

The live-tweeting worked and I watched the TATINOF show (yes - I was that pissed after the doc I didn't watch it - I didn't explicitly say that cos I knew I'd be lynched). It was kind of a cringe-fest but I still loved it.

So I've just been rewatching some of my favourite Deppy videos and it struck me that we may not know for sure the exact details of their relationship, but we know what type of people they are. We also know how self-aware and aware of their audience's reactions/perceptions they are.

As a result of those two things I just can't see that two good-natured people, who are self-aware enough to know how their actions will be interpreted, would do something like tease at a relationship they know their viewers have been heavily invested in for 7 years if there weren't a real relationship underneath it. That would be so cold which is why I've been salty cos that's what I was thinking was happening, but taking a step back really does aid perspective.

Fuck busgate. Fuck bedgate. I'm looking at the bigger picture now instead. And I'm much happier for it.

edit - Artdefines06 that's the line after buddy

edit 2 - BisexualShoeMarriage v interesting insight, particularly the end (which rings very true - Dan is more 'one of us' to the fangirls now I think, rather than someone to lust after, which may speak volumes to the progression of his expression of sexuality over the years)

YES. Welcome back

Another way I have been seeing it is that may know that we've gotten to the bottom of their ruse (if they are dating) and are trying to throw us off

[helvetica]

^^adding on to fanfic dynamics
for me it annoys me in fan fictions when they first meet and phils super innocent and a tiny babe and dan's the super edgy (tm) emo dom bc thats not how I see their relationship, especially in the beginning. Phil was older and also the main "celebrity" back in the day, while dan was the kid who looked up to him. I can see how in 2012, the fanfic might have reflected the dynamic of that era, but now especially, it seems weird reading about phil as the more submissive one (even tho I love phil )(and i really don't care that much about the sex positions but idk it /feels/ off, (to me at least))

[mez29]

I don’t give a shit what they actually do in their actual lives (if anything at all), but I am interested in perception, and trends in perception over time.

YES this is the postmodernist theory I signed up for. + what a great graph.

In 2012-13, the reader was presumed to want to fuck Dan. Now, the reader is presumed to want to be Dan.

I love this observation. Thank you.

[Diyes_Celine]

Did you guys catch this tweet from Dan:




The lines in that part of the song are:

Without the internet,
We never would have met.
And there is not a thing that I regret!

cuteness

I don't really think there's room in that relationship for another SO. Two's company, three's a crowd

Very sweet, and obviously a crowd pleaser.

Agreed, there is no room for another in their lives.

Except that's not the line...at least, not in the official version. That is what we thought it was when we were trying to hear it over the screaming lol



Also, I found the girl with the black top in the twitter feed and stalked her profile. She annoyed me exactly as much as I thought she would lol. Not that shes a bad person or anything (I actually enjoyed her political rants) but something about the fangirling just rubs me the wrong way. Its why I'm here and not any other places lol.

fuck. i don't know if it's the lack of sleep and migraine but that warmed my heart.
[center]Phil: and there is not a thing that I regret![/center]
aaaaawwwww I don't care if it's fan service. I needed that.

I always say that I am ok if they are not together. But I am most likely be bitter if they have s/o. But I think I can accept Dantyn.

I applaud your stalking skills. How were you even able to find that girl? If you want to follow other D&P fans, I highly recommend the popular phan artists. They are funny and talented.

[JoeAverage]

While reading the early fic, I noticed that the focus of it was different from the focus of smut written more recently. In smut from 2015-16, the focus tends to be on the receptive partner, and their pleasure. Phanfiction, generally, is often written by a female author, for the enjoyment of a presumably female reader. The reader is supposed to identify with the receptive partner, and that was also the case in the early phanfiction, but in that case the receptive partner was Phil. Rather than the focus being on Phil’s pleasure, as it often is in recent fic, it was focused on the privilege of him getting to have sex with Dan. Whether the fic was Established Relationship or Friends-to-lovers, the Phil character was insecure, and astonished to be blessed with Dan’s affections. The focus was on how attractive Dan was, and how lucky Phil was to get to have sex with him.

In 2012-13, the reader was presumed to want to fuck Dan. Now, the reader is presumed to want to be Dan.

Can we talk about this though? like why is this a recurring theme in the fics ? im just saying that from what i have seen if someone is going to be "insecure" and "astonished to be blessed by the other" is probs going to be Dan, i personally dont think any of this happens now, (7 years of knowing the person takes away most of the hero worshiping aspect of a relationship and leaves the domesticity part) maybe it did back in 09-10 tops 11 with dan internally freaking out, but i dont get why phil would be the one doing it now.

On that note, one aspect of phil that reminds me a bit of hazel is the "mature" aura they can both have in some situations, ex: like dealing with famous people (hazel does it 2000% better though, phil is just naturally awkward), a thing that most people tend to ignore. Maybe this is the reason on why I enjoy when these two collab, idk, i just feel that no matter how many more fans dan has, phil seems to have a much stable (if not higher) self steam.

Btw nice graphs, I love graphs (and lists), wish people used them more, thanks for them graph buddy!

[eevee]

When is The Internet Is Here coming to iTunes because it's very catchy and won't leave my head and I don't want to have to play the tatinof show every time I wanna listen to it #salty

Also I was totally baffled by the ribena cup magic trick and I found it online! It doesn't seem to be a super popular trick though so I wonder how they thought of it to put it in the show. Phil must've seen it before and requested it, because it doesn't seem like it's really fit for a stage show since you can't see it from far away. When I saw the show live I didn't see it and I was like what's going on? lol.

[Sakura Selfie]

I finally watched the doc and show and thought both of them were adorable and I'm still slightly surprised and impressed they managed to put on basically an entire royal variety show between the pair of them, that takes some stamina and a lot of planning.

Live tweeting was cute, I did tweet Dan a few times and then promptly deleted them because I don't want him to notice me or I'd cringe for a millennium, but they both seemed quite genuine in the majority of tweets. (I still want to know where the giant haru is though, also want to know where the cake footage is)

Mio- cough *johnlock fic* cough

Ps if anyone can tell me how Phil did that bowling ball trick I'd appreciate it!

[karma_yeah]

When is The Internet Is Here coming to iTunes because it's very catchy and won't leave my head and I don't want to have to play the tatinof show every time I wanna listen to it #salty

Ridiculously sticky song!

(I just noticed you're a haru pillow! ~ cute )

[Catallena]

Its does make me wonder where this whole Phil!tops debacle thing started? because i was somewhat in the phandom many years ago, I left it and then came back barely last year and a lot had changed, also yeah I do feel the same, i wish we could have more top!dan action. Just cos he's a diva doesnt mean he cant exude manliness when he wants to sorry its 5am here im normally less trashy i swear

Same. I don’t give a shit what they actually do in their actual lives (if anything at all), but I am interested in perception, and trends in perception over time. So, like the nerd I am, I made a graph. (of only fic rated E on Ao3. I’m aware that other sites exist, but Ao3 is a site I’m familiar with and gives me a limited sample size) Currently it’s only complete up to early October 2014, but it captures the fact that at the start of the Ao3 Dan Howell/Phil Lester tag, the first three pieces of smut still there, from late 2012 and early 2013, were all top Dan. It wasn’t until late March 2013 that the first surviving example of top Phil was uploaded to the site.

So, um, whatever it is that makes people think that Phil tops

I agree with Dizzy

Bottoming: I write Dan primarily bottoming (but with occasional switching) for a lot of reasons that involve way more than stereotypes. First and foremost: Dan references himself in receptive terminology when talking about men. "Enter me, Troye," the bottom tweet, 'fuck my butt,' the Evan Peters lobster tweet that couldn't be anything but Dan talking about Evan fingering him with the lobster hand, constantly presenting and actually calling it that. There's probably more but I'm writing this without putting proper research in so those are just what I found with a quick search.

When I'm writing I'm trying to draw based on patterns of behavior I've seen on them. One mention is a joke, multiple ones are a pattern of thought that clearly sticks in Dan's mind for a reason. Dan does not seem embarrassed by an association with bottoming or being receptive, he seems proud of it. That doesn't mean Phil never bottoms or doesn't enjoy it, but he's not out there trying to associate it with his public presence (even using humor) the way Dan (not at all) subtly does.

wasn’t there in late 2012, or was overshadowed by something people saw then which is now overlooked. Perhaps that factor was changes in their personas. Dan was more (I’m not sure “aggressive” is the right word, but I can’t find a better one) in his youtube content back then, and Phil was even less sexual than he seems now. Maybe people back then saw Phil as too sweet and innocent to be a top, while Dan seemed to have a more dominant personality (not that topping has to be a dominating act, but we’re talking about fanfiction here).

While reading the early fic, I noticed that the focus of it was different from the focus of smut written more recently. In smut from 2015-16, the focus tends to be on the receptive partner, and their pleasure. Phanfiction, generally, is often written by a female author, for the enjoyment of a presumably female reader. The reader is supposed to identify with the receptive partner, and that was also the case in the early phanfiction, but in that case the receptive partner was Phil. Rather than the focus being on Phil’s pleasure, as it often is in recent fic, it was focused on the privilege of him getting to have sex with Dan. Whether the fic was Established Relationship or Friends-to-lovers, the Phil character was insecure, and astonished to be blessed with Dan’s affections. The focus was on how attractive Dan was, and how lucky Phil was to get to have sex with him.

In 2012-13, the reader was presumed to want to fuck Dan. Now, the reader is presumed to want to be Dan.

This entire post I really recognize this but never thought about it in depth. Not really fanfic related but I remember that in the 2012-13 era there were a lot of people saying 'If I can't be with Dan, then only Phil can' (aka Phan was really second best to the fan's fantasy of themselves with Dan) and there was even a little graph of a circle diagram with 'People who are allowed to date Dan Howell' and then 'Me' and 'Phil' would be 50/50. You don't really see much of that anymore. Dangirls always doing the most back then

Guys, I don't care how they "label" their relationship. There is no one else.

Amen. Though I label them 'life partners' in my head, it's the most appropriate based on our knowledge imo.

My friend and I like speculating that they may not really be together rn, but that in 10 they still haven't moved apart (just to a different place hopefully lol) and their lives are still as intertwined as ever so one day they'll look up from their laptops and realize 'Oh it's always been you'

This would mean another 10 years of torture for all of us though.

[cold-tea]

one day they'll look up from their laptops and realize 'Oh it's always been you'

This would mean another 10 years of torture for all of us though.

That's some lovely phanfiction level of quality right there

[karma_yeah]

Guys, I don't care how they "label" their relationship. There is no one else.

Amen. Though I label them 'life partners' in my head, it's the most appropriate based on our knowledge imo.

My friend and I like speculating that they may not really be together rn, but that in 10 they still haven't moved apart (just to a different place hopefully lol) and their lives are still as intertwined as ever so one day they'll look up from their laptops and realize 'Oh it's always been you'

[violet-writer]

My friend and I like speculating that they may not really be together rn, but that in 10 they still haven't moved apart (just to a different place hopefully lol) and their lives are still as intertwined as ever so one day they'll look up from their laptops and realize 'Oh it's always been you'

This would mean another 10 years of torture for all of us though.

that is.. kind of exactly what i think their situation is/will be.

[spaceguitar]

My friend and I like speculating that they may not really be together rn, but that in 10 they still haven't moved apart (just to a different place hopefully lol) and their lives are still as intertwined as ever so one day they'll look up from their laptops and realize 'Oh it's always been you'

This would mean another 10 years of torture for all of us though.

that is.. kind of exactly what i think their situation is/will be.

But guys they don't live their life in a vacuum. They know that people think they are in a relationship. I'm sure that if they wanted to be in a relationship, they would be (though I respect this theory as a phanfic headcanon).

In other news: there is some drama on tumblr bc Dan 'stole' this user's post:
http://darkphannie.tumblr.com/post/1515 ... o-im-sorry

[fakelights]

I don't have anything to add to the current topic, but I'm enjoying the discussion and that's a very interesting graph, BisexualShoeMarriage. Love me a bit of stats!

About them:

Guys, I don't care how they "label" their relationship. There is no one else.

Amen. Though I label them 'life partners' in my head, it's the most appropriate based on our knowledge imo.

Yeap, I agree.

Now, I'm curious and the fact that the YTRed videos don't show the quantity of views the videos are getting made me search for something. I went to Socialblade and there it shows the views for both videos.
The doc on Phil's channel: http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/amazingphil/videos
228.3K
Tatinof on Dan's channel: http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/dan ... ire/videos
429.8K

So... Is that reliable? Or it shows both the full video views + the preview before you buy it?

[Afunnyworld]

sorry to bring this unimportant thing back up but Im pretty mad at twitter and their stupid algorithm rn

[offtopic]i cant stop thinking about this its is my favorite innocent phil moment of all time

https://www.youtube.com/embed/DcrO1jz9LMM[/offtopic]

[karma_yeah]

Interesting

[JoeAverage]

In other news: there is some drama on tumblr bc Dan 'stole' this user's post:
http://darkphannie.tumblr.com/post/1515 ... o-im-sorry

hmmm, i personally think it might just be a coincidence, i mean i have seen that rihanna pic several times before in other memes so they might just have come up with almost the same joke at almost the same time, if the first picture was the same one then I would be 100% sure dan stole the post, but since its a different one, i have my doubts, also i dont think dan is stupid enough to think that they wouldnt notice if he stole something. Things like this make me kinda feel bad for Dan, he always gets invited to the drama party.

[taetaewl]

sigh... I guess he never thought his fans would get butt hurt over something as minor as this.
It's hard to even write a sentence without crediting someone now a days, I thought danyul would have learnt this by now but I guess not. It's hardly even stolen lol

I wonder whatever Phil is keeping Dan on a leach for him to not getting in to the hell-fire or Dan doesn't even bother to get in to the middle of the drama (whenever somethings is up) cuz he is too lazy to fire back, u know too much effort to get involved. Because he either just dip his toes in it or doesn't join at all. Wish we could get some proper high-end Drama in our life, just fun to watch how it all plays out... still waiting for something to happen lol

[idk]

Now, I'm curious and the fact that the YTRed videos don't show the quantity of views the videos are getting made me search for something. I went to Socialblade and there it shows the views for both videos.
The doc on Phil's channel: http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/amazingphil/videos
228.3K
Tatinof on Dan's channel: http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/dan ... ire/videos
429.8K

So... Is that reliable? Or it shows both the full video views + the preview before you buy it?

For some reason I've been getting a view count on both videos when they appear in my what to watch feed on yt. The counts don't appear on the videos when I click on them nor do they appear when I click on their channels so idek what's going on there.

I see them as:

Doco: 233,899
Tatinof video: 435,110




So pretty close to those.

Not sure how reliable it is but they're pretty much the same - i'd say they're doing quite well

[jhamba]

sigh... I guess he never thought his fans would get butt hurt over something as minor as this.
It's hard to even write a sentence without crediting someone now a days, I thought danyul would have learnt this by now but I guess not. It's hardly even stolen lol

idk, he's gotten i trouble for something like this before (an f1 tweet? idr, it was something I didn't care about), but also, he usually tends to learn from his mistakes (even tho he doesn't apologize, which is annoying).

I'm not sure whether he'd do something like this again. I like to think he wouldn't be stupid enough to. And, as you said, it's a common gif.

[Bassoonage]

I know some of you guys were discussing sex clubs or something earlier, but isn't it highly possible they could both use celebrity dating apps like Raya? They go off of your social media presence and you have to have like high def photos. All of which have. I always assumed they used those. Tons of celebs use Raya and haven't been spotted with people, though they have confirmed meeting people on there. Cara Delavigne uses it, as well as Elijah Wood and Joe Jonas. Amy Schumer also met her bf on there.

Just a thought.....

[majitzu]

can't make a toast without tumblr saying you are problematic




do you really think D&P feel the need to use datting apps?

[jhamba]

I know some of you guys were discussing sex clubs or something earlier, but isn't it highly possible they could both use celebrity dating apps like Raya? They go off of your social media presence and you have to have like high def photos. All of which have. I always assumed they used those. Tons of celebs use Raya and haven't been spotted with people, though they have confirmed meeting people on there. Cara Delavigne uses it, as well as Elijah Wood and Joe Jonas. Amy Schumer also met her bf on there.

Just a thought.....

but... Raya is so much more boring? exclusive sex clubs are more interesting to discuss?

can't make a toast without tumblr saying you are problematic




do you really think D&P feel the need to use datting apps?

well, I mean, if you're making toast with bread made from slave labour, it's pretty problematic

(and, ofc not. Dan and Phil seem quite happy with each other)

[Bassoonage]

do you really think D&P feel the need to use datting apps?

It was just a thought. I mean if they were to date they'd want to do it privately and I think using the app is more of a privacy thing. If you hook up with a rando then they could tell anyone. But these celebrity dating apps have strict rules and a screening period where you have to be approved to be able to use it.

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate. I'm just saying that it would be an arguing point that they couldn't be dating other people or have been chaste for the last few years. I mean lots of people go on dating apps just to hook up. This could just be a way of doing that and knowing that the other person wouldn't let the cat out of the bag.

[eevee]

It was just a thought. I mean if they were to date they'd want to do it privately and I think using the app is more of a privacy thing. If you hook up with a rando then they could tell anyone. But these celebrity dating apps have strict rules and a screening period where you have to be approved to be able to use it.

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate. I'm just saying that it would be an arguing point that they couldn't be dating other people or have been chaste for the last few years. I mean lots of people go on dating apps just to hook up. This could just be a way of doing that and knowing that the other person wouldn't let the cat out of the bag.

Does everyone who signs up sign some kind of non-disclosure agreement? Just because they're a celebrity doesn't mean they won't leak it...although Dan and Phil aren't exactly conventional celebrities, so a celebrity would have no motivation to leak anything to the press because the press probably wouldn't want the story. lol. But anyway I'm just wondering I mean do they sign a secrecy pact?